It's me again with the naughty dog :) help, I don't know what else to try !

[marne2]

I posted yesterday about my poor Staffie who is getting left out due to my other dog ( she seems to be quiet depressed and I feel very guilty ), my other dog takes up so much time and even though we have tried so many things with him things seem to only get worse.

Because my other dog has been missing out I have started trying to walk them together again, now it know why I stopped before , I have just got home! I put both my dogs on leads in the field! I usually let the lab x off but he was running too far ahead so I put him back on the lead! as we got to the gate someone came into the field with 3 dogs, the lab started going crazy, pulled me over and I think he may have broken my hand ( I'm in agony ), took me a few minutes to gain control over him, he was wearing a 'non pull harness' which is attached to his collar as well as the lead but still I have no control. I have tried so many harnesses and so many training techniques to get him to walk tho heel but nothing works ( we walked backwards every time he pulled, did this for months and go no where, have used treats, clickers and various leads and harnesses ).

I am now crying as he is making life so difficult for my other dog and us as a family. He whines a lot, barks at everything, wakes in the night and destroys the house if left alone for more than half an hour. My other dog is layer back and sensitive, is reasonably well behaved, rarely barks and walks well on the lead, she's missing out big time as I am spending so much time trying to train the other dog and walk him 2-3 times a day to stop him being hyper and whining.

My husband is constantly arguing with me about the dog ( he would happily send him back to the rescue we got him from ), I don't want to give up on him, I have spoke to the rescue and. They have not been much help other than telling me that my dogs siblings are the same ( noisy, hyper and strong on the lead ). I don't know what to do, I want to be able to walk both dogs ( or even him on his own without me being pulled all over the place ), I want my other dog to be happy and I want to be able to go and do a food shop without the dog destroying my house, he does have a crate but he knows how to get out and has totally bent the sides of the crate.

I have posted so many times on here and been told to take him to training classes. I can't do this as there is nothing near us ( have looked so many times ) and I have no transport to get him anywhere. We can't afford for someone to come to the house and I'm guessing it would be a long process ( we havn't got that kind of money).

Help

Marne, I don't know what to suggest to you as I am just an owner, but you seem exasperated. I know you don't want to give up on him but have the rescue said they will take him back? You have 2 children who are disabled iirc? (My dd is severely disabled) but you need to -in YOUR situation- put the needs of your whole family first as I know from experience it's difficult enough as it is. It seems to me the rescue pushed you into having a dog you hadn't got the experience to cope with and that was very unfair of them :( that said, he's still under 2? So has time to calm down with training but if you are mismatched, you are mismatched and although I feel strongly that if you take on a dog it should be forever, in your case I can see how returning the dog, especially whilst he is under 2 and easier to rehome, May be better?

I'm by no means an expert (I've had my first dog as an adult for 8 months now) but I do know that you have to be consistent with training

I hear lots of people saying "I've tried everything and nothing works ..." but trying a mish-mash of methods here and there is not going to do anything except confuse the hell out of the dog and frustrate you

Pick one or two behaviours you want to change and really concentrate on them

If you have a lab x he should be very motivated by food which will make things easier. If you decide to make walking on the lead one of the things to work on start in the house and garden by clicking and treating every time he's near you, then try getting him to walk alongside you (no lead at this point) and click and treat every few steps. Do this for a few minutes at a time over and over and over again. Then try with his lead on but in the garden and house to start off with. If you can drive to somewhere you can let him off do that so he's not practising pulling on the way to the park.

This will take time and consistency but it WILL work

I work with dogs. I have yet to see a harness that stops pulling. I favour halties and as pp said treats and patience and consistency. The dog needs a minimum of three high intensity 45 minute walks per day. You would see a difference if you managed this for a couple of weeks solid. To be honest though, I don't think you have it in you. I am certainly not saying that to be judgy - we all make mistakes sometimes. If you can't give an animal the exercise it requires I have no bones about suggesting a rehome here. The dog will end up far far happier if he's matched to an owner who can meet his needs.

We have been focusing on one technique for the pulling ( have been sticking too it for months now ) and have seen no improvement.

I really don't want to return him to the rescue as they are not the the best, I know if he goes back he will be kept in a small house with many other dogs and not ever sized enough, it could take them a while to find him a new home. It's a hard decision for me but I think the best thing to do is look for a new home ( somewhere like a farm or somewhere where he can be worked ), he loves being outside and when he's off the lead he is a dream, he loves to retrieve and would do it all day if he could. I feel very guilty giving up on him but I'm starting to think 'we can't give him what he needs '. We had so many problems when we got him, I was told by many people to take him back but I didn't want to give up on him. He was so poorly just after we got him and had to spend time at the vets, he was only 12 weeks old so it must have been traumatic for him, coming from a house full of puppies and older dogs he has always had major issues with food, when I went to get him I was so unhappy with the conditions he was being kept in at the rescue that I wanted to bring him home, I know I shouldn't have but I'm a sucker for a animal in need .

Keeping him means my dd's will miss out on trips out this summer, something that's very important to them ( and me ), I know I should have thought about this before I got him but I have had a few dogs and have never experienced one like this so I was not prepared. I know all dogs chew when they are pups and all dogs need training but we started clicker training from day 1, he picked up on this quickly but then after learning a few commands he shut off and became a handful ( not doing anything he was told even if it involved a treat ). Our house isn't big, we are lucky to have a big garden but when he is indoors he takes up most of our living room and the dd's are often getting knocked and scratched by him, we were told he would be a small lab size but he is large.

I know technically I have to return him ( as that's the rules with the rescue ) but I would rather keep him here until a suitable home is found, if I can find him somewhere I can then contact the rescue and get them to do a house check. I need to know he is going to a good, energetic, large home.

Feeling gutted about having to do this, I often slag people off for giving up their animals, my dogs are like part of my family so this is very hard for me to even consider .

He is walked twice a day for up to an hour at a time and we play ball for half an hour a day on the field out the front of our house. We have a halti, it has been the best thing but when he see's a person or a dog he manages to get out of it ( he does love other dogs, he just wants to say hello but seems to lose control of himself and won't listen to my instructions ).

I feel he is getting enough exercise ( as does the vet and the rescue ), it just means that my other dog isn't getting enough, if I walked both of them for 2 hours a day this would take 4 hours, I havn't got 4 hours a day to walk them both so often my older dog is missing out. The more I walk him the more he whines, he remembers the next day what time he went out and will cry and cry at that time, expecting to go, I can't just drop everything and take him and he needs to learn to wait. We have focused on the lead training and the crying for the past 3 months, neither have really improved.

Too much physical exercise just leads to an adrenalin junkie that needs more and more to get his 'high'.

10 minutes of mental stimulation is worth thirty of physical.

What are you feeding him? Food can affect behaviour.

Get rid of his food bowl. Chuck his food into the grass in the garden so he has to sniff it out. Use a puzzle feeder, seal his food in loo roll tubes and hide them around the house, take him 'hunting' for them.

Do some trick training. Look up 'kikopup' on YouTube.

If you let me know the area you are in I can try and find a force free professional for you.

Also have a look here for some very good advice on loose lead walking. You may want to join that group too. You will get absolutely free advice from experienced and qualified professionals.

Thank you lilcamper, I will take a look. He's fed on dry food ( weigh wrights ), we have tried several different foods from very cheap to very expensive, he has a allergy to rice so we are quite limited, we can't raw feed due to me having a autistic daughter that puts everything I her mouth ( so I don't want raw chicken about ).

We feed him with a 'slow feeder bowl' but he has sussedt the his out and can still clear his bowl in seconds, we did try feeding him by chucking the food I the floor or grass suit he would still cry for his dinner ( didn't think it counted as his food was not I a bowl), we also put food in cardboard boxes and tape them up but he won't eve try to get the food out ( just gives up and walks away ). He goes very hyper as soon as he thinks there is food about, I make him sit but then he gets very vocal.

The post man has just knocked the door, this time I just ignored the dog, I knew he would bark, usually it ell him to shush before I open the door to the postman but this time I didn't say anything and causally opened the door, he barked once and was then quiet ( much better than usual ). It seems to be the same with anything, the more I fuss and verbalise with him the worse he gets, when I feed him I tell him to sit, he gets more excited, when I go to take him for a walk I tell him to calm down and sit but he gets worse ( although I do refuse to take him out the door until he is calm enough not to drag me out ).

Training classes really would benefit you both. Just from reading what you say, there are exercises and techniques a decent trainer could show you that would make SO much difference. Check out bus and train routes, or take a taxi.....many will accept a doggie passenger!

I wholeheartedly agree with getting him mentally stimulated and working for his food. If he is hankering after a meal in a bowl, then just give him a small bit of his ration in his bowl as a 'mock dinner' He won't know the difference. Use the rest for games and training to wear him out and develop his training.
Don't nag him though, or unduly fuss over naughty behaviour. Dogs are smart enough to realise that they can get more attention by playing you up and will learn to play up for attention deliberately very easily.

Sadly there are not many buses here and train station is 20 miles away, nearest training group is 20 miles away and he does not travel well (I think we would be chucked of the bus ) .

He is being extra nice to me know, as if he knows that I am considering giving him up , I love him to bits, he is my shadow but if I cant sort him out then its not fair on my family (who have to put up with his behaviour and miss out on things). I will try my best with him but I feel 'if someone came along who could offer him the right home I would let him go' .

I have just given him his dinner on the grass, I put it in the bowl, let him have a mouth full and then chucked the rest on the ground, he was out there for a good 20 minutes making sure he had got all of it , he's now asleep.

See, it does work!

Aw marne I think I confused you with another pp! So sorry (think I need to step away from the keyboard, am slightly deranged with food poisoning/painkillers atm)

Best of luck with a difficult situation!

That's ok trashcan, hope you are feeling better soon xx

I had an excitable lab cross when I was a child. My mum just let her pull on the lead, and that was a real issue for me as it meant I couldn't walk her as I wasn't strong enough. As soon as I grew strong enough to handle her, I went through my mum's old books until I found an old dog training book. Barbara Woodhouse type of thing. It took one long summer holiday of being consistent, only walking her myself and never giving in, but it worked, and for the next ten years she walked politely by my side, came instantly when called, and was so easy to take out.

My mum asked me to train her next dog, and we used a different method for him - it still worked, because I was 100% consistent. In both cases, it was my way or nothing, and the dog soon got the idea.

The kindest of the two methods is quite time consuming, but much nicer. As soon as they get to the end of the lead, you stop, and wait until they sit down. Once they are sitting, you begin walking again. There's body language involved too (that I can't remember so you need a proper trainer to show you - one session would do and wouldn't cost that much!). The first time you do it you're lucky if you get two houses away and back in half an hour, but from the moment you start, you have to be relentless in your determination, however long it takes. Within a few weeks we were walking short-length but half decent walks, and by 8 weeks, normal-length walks in a normal length of time (but without the pulling!).

Whatever method you use, whether you learn it from a detailed description in a book/dvd or from a person, be 100% consistent and you will get results. It will be so frustrating at first, but unbelievably worth it in the end.

Thank you, I think you are right with being consistent, we keep doing the turn around when he pulls', for a while I saw a slight improvement as long as we didn't see anyone on our walk, we were doing it with the halti until he got out of it one day ( again it was due to seeing another dog ), the problem worsens when I take them both out together as I can then not do the 'turning around thing' as I end up getting tripped up by my very confused Staffie so then I'm back to walking him alone and my other dog missing out ( i just havn't got enough time to walk them on their own twice a day ). Dh is being no help, has never helped me walk them. Dd2 wants to walk the dog but he is way too strong .

I do the sit, walk one step, sit walk two steps, sit walk three steps if mine starts to get pulley too. I think it's common tbh to still get pulling in an excitable dog at this stage as they are still adolescent

Thank you, I think I will give that a go, the 'turning around and walking back' starts to make me dizzy , sometimes it takes me half and hour to get out of our road (only a few ft) and he has started randomly stopping and turning back before I turn.

Another thing he does which is really bothering us is he eats my other dogs poop (sorry if anyones eating), I try and pick it up asap but when the weathers nice I leave the back door open all day so they can come and go as they please from the garden, he will follow my other dog and wait for her to go he then comes running in breathing poo breath over everyone. A while ago I bought some tablets to put in their food to stop them eating their poop but they did not work (just made them loose) and my other dog wont eat pineapple (apparently this is meant to work). Its really horrid and my house constantly smells .

Coprophagia is common. Best thing to do is just clean up straight away.You can also work on training a solid 'leave' cue.

We are working on the 'leave', probably pissing the neighbours off when I'm shouting it at 7am down the garden .

There are lots of different methods for teaching a dog not to pull - different ones work with different personalities. If you get a behaviourist out, they will be able to give you a method that will work in your situation, with your specific dog. They will be able to show you exactly what to do, and train you to do it. It might only take one visit. My parents had one out for their pup - it took one visit to give a solution. They were left with exercises to do, which worked.

To be honest with you OP it sounds like you are trying very very hard with this dog but no one can do training on their own. I have been training my dogs for 18 years and I still go to training classes because I still need someone looking in and picking up on my mistake. Books and videos are great introductions to training but you really need someone to watch you train, correct your technique, see how the dog reacts and suggest changes that are specific to your partnership. If there is no way you can get to a training class or have someone come to you I think you may need to consider rehoming.

Specifically for pulling I do it a bit differently. Walk out of the house with the dog on a lead, as soon as the dog moves in front of you stop and don't say or do anything. Wait it out (it can take ages) until the dog turns around and looks at you, click and treat the fact that he paid you a bit of attention. Turn in the opposite direction and go. As soon as he walks in front of you, stop again and repeat. For a few weeks you won't go more than a couple of paces in each direction so the walk won't happen but this technique does tend to work quite well.

Some things you also need to just let go. Eating poo is very very common in dogs. They will all eat some kind of poo, cat poo is a super favourite, most will sample horse poo, fox poo they seem to want to wear as well as eat and many will eat their own poo or that of other dogs. That is a fact of living with a dog unfortunately.

OP I don't know if this will help but I had a lead puller too.

I noticed that on days when I had headphones in listening to music - he wouldn't pull. It's really odd but I think that there may have been a difference in my body language that he picked up on.

When I listen to music I tend to zone out and get into a more determined stride - plus I imagine I was more relaxed and not paying my usual amount of attention to the dog (? less tense).

It's quite interesting really but he seems to become much attentive to me - trying to match MY pace rather than the other way round plus I noticed that he would look up at me quite frequently to check I was still 'there' so to speak.

This is probably of no help at all though but just an observation I have recently made - good luck

Ok, just got back from our morning walk, took him on his own, was armed with treats and we tried out the 'stopping when he pulls' seemed to be reasonably well although he still remembers the turning back technique and every time I stopped he would circle me and then sit in front of me for a reward. All was going well, we got to our neighbours fence where their jack Russell started barking/yapping, I tried to calm my dog down and then he went to say hello, when the other dog got a bit excited my dog started barking so we walked away. Got a little way up the road and met another dog on a lead, I walked to the other side of the road, tried to get my dog to sit and wait whilst the other dog passed but no amount of food was going to work , he pulled me across the road and when he could not reach the other dog he started barking! eventually I regained control and we carried on. The rest of the walk went ok, he stayed close to me in the field whilst off the lead and walked ok (ish) on the way home and we made it pass the jack Russell without barking ( managed to keep him calm and reward).

So we can work on the stoping when pulling but how do I keep him under control when we see another dog?

He has always been fine with other dogs, though he will pull towards them a little bit he has only started doing the barking thing since he was castrated a few weeks ago, could this be linked? He used to happily play with other dogs or even ignore them, he has had a few run ins with a collie that we bump into, it's always off the lead and alway bounds over to us, barks and tries to round my dogs up like sheep, maybe this has unsettled him a little?