Can't stop crying. Pregnant dog.

[PregnantPupOwner]

Regular NC'ing for this. It'll be long and rambly. Please don't lay into me. You couldn't possibly make me feel worse than I already do.

After 2 years of thought and consideration we got a puppy last September. We considered a rescue and I visited Dog's Trust numerous times but didn't find a dog that was the right one for us and selfishly didn't want an older dog or a dog with behavioural issues for our first family pet.

We decided to buy a labradoodle puppy. I went to view the Mum and litter and got good vibes from the breeder. Selected our pup and picked her up when she was 9 weeks old. I know this is frowned upon by many but it felt like the right decision for us.

She has been an absolute joy. Training has been a doddle and we love her so much it's like we never didn't have her. We have even recently been talking about getting a second dog (a rescue greyhound or whippet) in a few years time.

We had a week long trip to visit my parents booked for April. Breeder practically insisted that Pup stay with her (and refused £ for it until we physically shoved it in her hand). Pup hadn't yet had her first season. We had her booked in to be neutered back in March but on the day they couldn't do it because she had vaginitis and we were told by the vets that we had to wait till 2 months after her first season.

So her season started when we were away. The first 4-5 days were while she was at the breeder's house. We asked explicitly if there was any chance whatsoever that she had been 'caught'. Breeder assured us that she'd been kept away from the 2 un-neutered male litter mates who had visited her house. We (foolishly?) took her word for it.

When we took her home Pup was very lethargic and was bleeding for 2 more weeks. It all seemed like what I'd been led to expect from her first season. We kept her inside, she wasn't walked and we took her into the garden on her lead to toilet. As soon as her season finished I rang and booked her in for 2 months time.

Based on nothing more than my instinct and the fact that she's been a bit slow to eat her food in the last few days I took her to the vet today and it looks like she's fucking pregnant . Vet said that she can't be 100% sure and that whatever she was feeling was very small so we're having a scan in the morning to confirm and if it is still early enough they will abort/neuter. If not I don't know what the hell we're going to do.

From what I've read my dog could be in danger from giving birth so young? The puppies could be deformed because of it being her brother that got her pregnant?

To add to the fucking mess I am 30 weeks pregnant and absolutely beside myself. I feel so awful for my dog. We're not bad people. We're not irresponsible people. We love our dog and have been delighted at how she's enriched our lives and thrived in our care.

We didn't have to go away but I genuinely thought she was in safe hands and at 8 months was old enough for a week in someone else's care. If we could have known her season was going to start then I would have cancelled the holiday.

Does anyone have any advice or relevant experience?

If she is pregnant and they can't abort what am I going to do? We have no-one here, it's just me, DP and DD. What will happen if I have a dog who has just had puppies, a litter of (potentially deformed) puppies and I go into labour??

My head is spinning. If you've got this far, thank you for reading. Any advice would be most welcome.

Oh I am so sorry. I would also be upset. If she's pregnant, I'd be getting on to the breeder and giving her an earful tbh. Your poor pup :( I don't know much about terminating pregnancy in dogs, but can they do it at any stage? There's no way I'd be letting such a young bitch whelp if I could possibly help it.

Please try to calm down, you are heavily pregnant and emotional. This is not your fault and what has happened has happened.

Get her to the vet tomorrow and go see what they say. This happened to a rescue of my mum's and they just whipped the whole lot out (so spay and abort) and the dog was fine. She was about a month along I think, but don't quote me on it.

Hopefully some others will be along soon, but please don't worry too much. X

Thank you Snakey.

It was all I could do not to ring her and give her hell. DP talked me down. Ultimately it was our naivety and bad judgement that allowed us to believe she was 100% capable of looking after our pup.

Pup was born on Aug 17th last year so is 9 months not 8. Still far far too young to go through this.

I think if all the vets agree that it is ethically sound they will go ahead and do the abortion. Our vet said they obviously don't want more unwanted puppies in the world. But if they're past a certain point they wouldn't be able to. That's my fear .

She's laid up in my lap and seems oblivious to all the drama .

firstly, don't beat yourself up, these things happen. There are hundreds of women on mn who have fallen pregnant unexpectedly and do so with no judgement yet all hell seems to break loose if it's a dog or a cat.

Firstly you need to establish with the vet whether she is actually pregnant and whether it's early enough to terminate, although if she caught in March it may not be. Then you need to have a discussion about potential repercussions for the mum/pups. As harsh as it is, if the pups are born with deformaties they can be pts humainly, but even if not you need to talk to the vet about how to home the puppies to responsible people who won't breed from them.

Friends of my parents had two dogs from the same litter which they allowed to breed although there were no repercussions in terms of issues with the puppies (which she kept, all five of them! )

The situation you're in atm isn't ideal but you haven't actually done anything wrong.

hth.

And thanks Owllady. I've stopped being hysterical now. Not good for me or the baby.

DP was his usual philosophical and rational self which even though I know is sensible made me want to throttle him. He's gone back to work now. I have to go pick DD up from after school activity so have woman-ed up and redid my mascara.

Thank you wanna. That's a useful post .

It was last month (April). She was at the breeders from 5th to the 13th and according to the breeder her season started on the 10th.

Frankly I think that you were doing the sensible thing, sending the pup to board with the breeder - and they should have known better. There is absolutely no way anyone could blame you for what's happened - now you just need to do whatever's the best for your dog - I hope you get some good advice from your vet.

She might be cutting it a bit fine for the mismate injection - I wouldn't have thought she'll be too late for spaying.

If she is too late for spaying...that means they're due pretty soon and would be old enough to leave her before your due date.

I would have thought the breeder is the safest place to have boarded her. I'm sure when you purchased her it was specifically for a pet and the condition was that she does not breed? Reputable breeders do that and refuse to sell (what's usually at least double the price) a breeding registered animal to a novice.

I would be fuming with the breeder and definitely giving her the vet bills.

You don't think she let it happen on purpose do you? It just seems such an irresponsible thing to do (her not you!) When she must deal with this situation regular?

I honestly don't know what she was thinking. She knew that we were having the puppy neutered asap and had absolutely no intentions to breed her.

I'm beginning to question her motives amd commitment entirely tbh. She text DP last week saying that due to shift changes at work she had to rehome all her dogs and would we be interested in taking another .

I don't think there's much point in giving her the vets bills as she'll no doubt just deny letting it happen. We know 100% that it didn't happen on our watch.

Our appointment is first thing tomorrow. I'll be back with an update. The absolute ideal result would be a not too advanced pregnancy + procedure tomorrow and she'd be well on her way to being better by the weekend. I'm going to try and focus on that outcome. The alternative is too stressful right now.

The Alizin injection which causes abortion can be used up to 6 weeks pregnant (counted from mating) but is unpleasant (large volume oily injection twice 24 hours apart) and at 4-5 weeks will cause an obvious abortion rather than them being reabsorbed. It should not be too late to spay her provided your vet is willing to do this - technically can be done at any point, but bigger operation the further along she is and viable puppies have to be euthanased if she was near term (9 weeks) I think if your intention was to spay her post season this is your best option, and I would make sure any costs over and above a routine spay are passed on to her breeder.
I'd be worried about a 10m old skeletally immature bitch having a litter, likely to run into issues giving birth, would often have a small (in numbers) litter which means the individual pups can be large, issues with nutritional demands of pregnancy when she is still growing, quite apart from genetic problems from a sibling mating.
I don't know why you are expecting a flaming, I'd reserve that for the breeder, she's the one who was too slack to supervise or too scared to tell you she'd been mismated so you could take action early.

The most she can possibly be going by what you definitely know...she was left there on the 5th and wasn't in season then...is 39 days.

If the breeder is right about the 10th that takes you to between 34 and 31 days.

The mismate injection is up to day 45 - so actually I think she'd be fine for it.

I'm not a vet though so they may still prefer to spay her, but I really don't think you're in any danger of being too far gone for either.

I would get her scanned to be sure, but I betcha she's not in pup.

You really need to be discussing this with the breeder. Have you actually told her yet? Has she offered to pay for the vets bills and reimburse you? You weren't being naive at all in expecting your dog to be safe there, you'd think the breeder would be the best place! I'd have done exactly the same. I would however now be at the breeders house telling her what's happened and that she will be paying all the bills. Fucking hell would she be getting away with that.

And who the hell gives all their dogs away because their shifts have changed? I'd be handing my notice in first.

Oh, and by the way, your dog shares a birthday with my dog.

Thats terrible. my friends dog got caught at dog day care despite them reassuring her they would keep her seperated

No advice but you poor thing and it's not your fault. You will need vet to give you a very firm idea of how far along she is so that hopefully you cam prove she caught at the breeder's and send her the bill! Your dog will be fine I'm sure.

So, she was only at the breeders for the first three days of her season?

You would be incredibly unlucky for her to have been caught - she would have to have ovulated mind bogglingly early for an egg to be available to be fertilised at that point. Ovulation is usually between days 9 - 14 of the season, and then as ova are released in an immature state, they have to ripen which takes 4/5 days and from then onwards they are ready to be fertilised. Sperm can live for a max if 7 days in the bitches reproductive tract, but most are only viable for 3 days.

You would be seriously unlucky to have such an early ovulating bitch, and even then the dates just don't quite stack up.

And palpating. That is usually only possible for a really small period of time - around 3.5 weeks into pregnancy where it may be possible to feel foetal units - but it not always successful.

What are the signs you have seen? What is making you think she is pregnant? All those you have detailed so far could just as easily be put down to a phantom pregnancy which all bitches suffer from to some extent.

Tell me what you have observed - discharge? Vomiting? What are her nipples like? And her vulva?

daisy According to the breeder her season started on the Thursday. We picked her up on the Sunday afternoon.

The main reason for the vet trip is that she's been ignoring her kibble. She usually loves it.

She's also been very noticeably affectionate toward us. She always has been anyway but she's really OTT at the moment.

Physically, her nipples are larger and more pink than before she seasoned. Her vulva is possibly slightly swollen looking. No discharge.

She vomited yesterday and had diarrhoea.

She definitely doesn't look pregnant and I have been feeling her tummy lots over the last few days but have felt nothing (obviously I have no clue what I'm looking for).

The vet wasn't definite that she was pregnant but said that she was "very suspicious" after giving her a thorough feel from behind. She said it could be feces but given the diarrhoea it seems unlikely that she's bunged up.

You're right though - the dates do sound off. If she turns out not to be pregnant I'll be massively relieved.

The vet will have been feeling for little pearl sized units in the uterus - they would be spaced out like beads on a string along both sides of the uterine horns, but by day 34 of a pregnancy, the foetuses are surrounded by more fluid which will make it pretty impossible to actually feel them.

Bitches have a forked, horn shaped uterus and pups implant along both horns rather like peas in a pod.

By day 34, I would expect to be seeing a noticeable thickening at her waist, along with a pretty swollen vulva. Discharge is also common during a pregnancy.

It sounds to me as though she is having a rotten phantom pregnancy, hormonal, moody and off her food - I really hope that's all it is. The dates don't stack up, and tbh, neither does the vet saying she thinks she can feel something at day 34. Why did they not u/s scan there and then?

It was a small local vet's that don't do ultrasound. We're off to their main hospital in the morning where they do.

You've given me loads to think about and some hope that this might be less catastrophic that I initially thought - thank you daisy

That's awful she done that to you and your dog. My 10 yr old staffie I took in as a pup. Breeder was breeding kc reg ones kept a male from prev litter who got his mother pregnant so he wanted rid of them ASAP. I know one was born with a deformed leg and my dog has had 2 cruciate surgeries but could just be a coincidence, she's 10 now and fine temperament wise. Haven't read the full thread. I think maybe she's done it deliberately

Oh and my Staffordshire has also had 2 phantom pregnancies years ago before getting her fixed

The other possibility is a pyo, yes they are usually in bitches over they age of 8. However, I have seen 2 in bitches less than year old.
I was brought up with the mantra any entire bitch who is ill is a pyo till proved otherwise.
In the last week I have actually seen several pros including a 5 year old and a 2 year old.

I so hope it's just a phantom - she is far too young to have a litter regardless of who Dad is. Lack of any discharge is a promising non pg sign - all my pg bitches have had a clear Vaseline sort of discharge from about day 20 - and all of them have bled for their entire season whether mated or not.

Just an observation from my experience, vets aren't often tip top at diagnosing pregnancy - I always have more luck using a local sheep scanner tbh.

Don't let your logical brain be overwhelmed at the vets tomorrow and ask them to clearly outline ALL your options and the consequence for your bitch if the outcome is what you fear.

Come back and update us?