Anyone feed their dog/s Vitalin working dog food? hyperactive dog :(

[Marne]

I have posted several times over the past few weeks about my dog, he's being such hard work .

He is hyperactive all the time, he wont let me sit down without crying to be walked (I'm walking him 3 times a day, several miles each time which he spends off the lead chasing a ball, so loads of exercise), he's extra bouncy, as soon as I stand up he jumps around knocking my 8 year old over and annoying my other dog.

I used to feed him a mixture of dry and wet food (Vitalin working dog and chappie), the vet recommended I just fed him dry as it would fill him up more (because he is waking at 5am crying for food) but since being on just dry we have had the hyper behaviour, he's also pulling like a train on the lead and he doesn't seem to get tired, getting him to listen to me has become a struggle (as he is too busy jumping around going loopy), it has only just occurred to me that it might be his diet .

Vitalin has been the only food I have found that doesn't upset his tummy, the only food that produces poo's that I can pick up in the garden without making a mess, I am worried about changing it. He suffered with colitis as a pup and we think he may have a allergy to rice so finding a food with low rice content is a struggle. I have just bought pets at home own food which is meant to be similar to 'james wellbeloved ' and its potato and salmon (so low rice content), going to mix it with his other food tonight and see if it makes a difference (or if it upsets his tummy).

Has anyone else had a similar experience with this food? I'm guessing it is a high energy food as it is produced for working dogs? we bought it because of the price and it didn't seem to have the additives in which other cheaper foods do. I cant afford to feed 2 dogs on JWB and I have not got the freezer space to do raw feeding (and I cant risk having raw chicken around with a autistic child that licks everything).

What breed and age is he?

If he's genuinely having enough exercise (mental as well as physical) I would personally consider crating or kenneling at certain times of day to give yourself a break.

The Pets at Home stuff is pretty good (Wainwrights or Fishmongers), they do wet trays as well as dry. My usual budget recommendation would be Skinners but that's rice based; other than Fish4Dogs you're probably looking at Millie's Wolfheart/Eden/Orijen type things which are £££ and very high protein.

If it's this one it's a godawful food. :(

He's a Lab x collie (with a touch of lurcher), he's on the go all day, will rest for 10 minutes after a walk and will tem be asking to go again, I'm walking him first thing in the morning, lunch time and now in the evenings (now its lighter), he also has 100's of toys and will play with my other dog throughout the day (tug of war and chasing each other around), we have a large garden but he rarely goes out there on his own, we are considering a kennel for the garden but I'm worried he will bark and cry. He was crated but worked out how to get out (plus he was getting too big for his crate) so we have put it away. I cant leave him on his own for more than an hour as he will find his own entertainment (chew up the house).

At the moment he is running up and down the living room throwing his own ball (flicks it up in the air and then chases it), he has worn my other dog out .

Will try him on the wainwrights and see how we go. Have just looked at reviews for the Vitalin but cant find anything bad about it, hopefully getting him castrated will help. He's 18 months old so still young.

This is the one he has active dog
It has the highest meet content and no additives, other then being hyper he has been great on it, has filled out a bit and has a shinny coat.

It's 70% cereals, no wonder he is bouncing off the walls.
No meat at all, just meat and bonemeal and poultry meal I.e. mechanically recovered rubbish.
You are not going to get a good quality food at £1ish a kilo.

1.7 out of 5 stars on comparedogfood website. They do an adult chicken/potato one with no cereals which might be worth considering (3.7/5) but it is much more expensive at £38 for a 15kg bag.
The site is useful for comparing foods and lists all the ingredients so may help with finding a rice free alternative.

Sorry, it's www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk

Oh blimey, that's a dog and a half - the sort you see in the open classes of sled dog rallies, or an agility ring. Can you give him a job to do? It sounds as if he's inherited the most needy attributes of all of those breeds.

The Vitalin is all cereals, no proper meat, it won't be filling him up at all.

A pet dog does not need working dog food. It is to make sure a working dog has extra nutrients so they can maintain energy levels all day. No wonder he is hyper!

I didn't plan on feeding him working dog food, we have tried so many foods which have just upset his tummy, one day our local farm shop was offering samples of this so I tried it and like magic he produced solid poo's .

We have tried JWB, Burns, fish for dogs, chappie as well as several others, my house is full of half bags of dog food .

We got him as a rescue pup, was told he would be a small lab type, we got him in hope he could be a assistant dog for my dd who has ASD, we started training him at 10 weeks and he was doing great (clicker training) but then when he reached 12 months old training got harder, he started to ignore and just leap around. He can sit (but refuses to stay), has a great re-call and retrieves very well, when he is calm (which hasn't been much over the past few weeks) he has been great at calming down dd and will listen to commands. Its only been the past few weeks where he has been totally uncontrollable

He would make a fab gun dog, he has a good nose and will retrieve anything, he loves it out in the fields.

Now he seems to have started scent marking around the house, dd1 just saw him do it next to my other dogs food bowl and I have noticed the smell of dog wee around the house .

So far the new food has made no difference (I know its early days), I have contacted the rescue where I got him from in hope they can offer some advice as I am really struggling with him at the moment and I'm not enjoying having him, I feel guilty that we don't seem to be giving him what he wants/needs, I cant exercise him anymore than I am (3 walks a day is taking up a lot of time and I have 2 autistic children to look after as well as my other dog who is missing out as I cant walk them together), he has been pacing up and down all day even after being walked, played with, fed and walked again .

Oh dear
What have you changed his diet to?
I really don't think changing it today will make any difference anyway, as the withdrawing be out of his system.
Did you ring wiccaweys? I can't remember whether it was you I asked before sorry. They will give you free behavioural advice (I believe) and are a border collie specific rescue and know what they are doing.
Do you attend training with him? I find it wears my collie out to do a structured class and we do agility too. Varying prices for classes but I pay £7 a week, which I personally think is reasonable for the experience and advice

My puppy has fish4dogs food, I am pretty sure it doesn't have rice in it, it is good quality food. There is a special offer on the adult food at the moment.

We don't attend training as there is nothing near by (we live in the middle of nowhere) and he doesn't travel well, he would love agility but the nearest group is 20 miles away .

We are trying him on wainwrights salmon and potato, I think its similar to the fish-4-dogs, our local pets at home no longer sell fish4dogs and I cant find it in any other shop, we did try some samples I got online but it wasn't really enough to see if he was ok on it (he always gets a upset tummy if we try something new).

Wiccaweys? no it wasn't me but sounds like it could be a option, I don't think he has much collie in him tbh, his mum was possibly a lab with a touch of collie, guessing his dad was a lurcher or possibly a cross with a flat coat retriever (hard to tell), either way a mixture of the most active breeds .

We didn't ever intend on getting a lab x, we contacted a rescue to find a companion for out 5 year old staffie in hope to get a staffie x but we were pushed into having a puppy (as the mother had given birth to 9 or 10 they were obviously desperate for homes and we fell for him when we saw him), we only have a small house, never expected him to get this big, we don't have a extra room we can put him in to calm him down and we don't have room for a bigger crate.

I'm going to phone the vet tomorrow and get him booked in to be castrated on wed, hopefully that might stop the scent marking and might calm him down a little.

I am beginning to wonder if he has picked up the scent of a female in heat? would that send him a bit crazy, make him unsettled and make him scent in the house? our neighbours have dogs, not sure if they are female, he's spending a lot of time outside sniffing around the fence.

Vitalin is a dreadful food way too high in protein 24% and full of rubbish ingredients that will make the calmest dog crazy. It will take up to 6 weeks to see any changes once you alter his diet so don't write off the new food.

You have a young active dog that will need training to be calm as well as the exercise you are giving him.

How where you planning on training him to be an assistance dog?

The behaviour you describe is bread and butter behaviour for an APDT trainer who could give you a plan to follow that would fit in with your lifestyle.

Castration will not change the hyper behaviour at all.

Wiccaweys are not giving behavioural advice on the phone at the moment so I would not contact them.

'How were you planning on training him to be a assistant dog' we don't expect him to do much, would be great if my dd2 can walk him and if he has road sense to stop her running into the road, we planned on taking him out with us on trips out to keep dd2 focused and calm, for a while she could walk him but for the past few weeks he has been too strong and excited on the lead. There's no major rush to train home and if it doesn't work out then he will just be a family pet.

We will give the food a chance, get him castrated this week and see how things go, hopefully he will return to his slightly calmer self, a few weeks ago he was happy with one long walk and a session out the front with the ball each day ( we have a small bit of land out the front of our house which we use for playing ball ), now he's wanting 3 walks plus a couple sessions chasing ball out the front. I spent 40 minutes continuously chucking the ball at 6pm, he looked tired but then when we came in he started chasing my other dog around and playing with his toys, he didn't settle until 9pm, he's now flat out on the floor. I am tired from all the extra exercise .

You are over stimulating him and making things much worse.

Collies and collies x will work chase balls until they drop - 40 mins ball throwing is way too much for any dog - you are just giving him a massive adrenalin buzz and winding him up way too much.

You need to teach calm and bring his adrenalin levels down - this may take a few days but you have to do it for his health and well being.

Thanks nutty, I have spoken to the rescue and they have advised the same, they have told me to ignore his crying and just take him for one walk, they have also suggested raw feeding but I can't really do this due to having dd that licks everything and not having space in the freezer for 25 chickens but I am going to try him with a raw bone! can I get these from the butchers?

I'm going to try and get him a bigger crate then he can eat his bones in there out of the way of dd2 and away from my other dog.

This morning dh fed him and he we'd all over my rug as soon as he had finished his food, didn't ask to go out. He's only just started doing this and always seems to be around food, I'm thinking its a dominance thing as I feed my other dog near him, I'm going to try and feed my other dog in a different room later to see if that helps.

Could you try a complete raw food? Something like Nutriment or Natural Instinct?

Marne, he isn't going to ask to go out.
You let out immediately after feeding
Immediately after they wake up
Immediately after playful behaviour
Do not let in until he has wet/poo if necessary
This should, on its own, get him into a routine of not messing in the house.
Well that's what I have done anyway and its always worked. I say, good wee! Good poo! And an intelligent dog will learn the words as commands eventually
I am now going to die of embarrassment

Every time he is let out of his crate he needs to be let outside toilet too
Are you sure there are no training classes local you don't know about? I live rural too and there are loads of people who do it, sometimes it's not that easy to find but they are there

Owl, he is let out as soon as he has eaten his breakfast, dh said he was peeing whilst still eating. He won't go out until he has eaten, if we let him out he just sits at the door barking and jumping up at the handle.

We don't shut him in his crate unless we go out, it's just used as a safe space for him to get away from our other dog to have his own space. We did toilet train using the crate and he has been 100% house trained up until the past few days! he will ask to go out by going to the door! he will even ask to go out if he is going to be sick so it's not a case of 'he won't ask to go out' because he will and does many times during the day.

And he knows the command ' go for a wee' we taught he it as soon as we toilet trained him, toilet training has never been a problem, he hasn't messed in the house since he was 15 weeks old until this week ( he's now 18 months old ).

If I start feeding him raw can I just buy cheap meat ( almost out of date) from the supermarket? Is mince ok and chicken wings? How much do you feed them?

You need to feed a mixture of meat and bone, if you google BARF you'll get some good advice on proportions and amounts. I feed a complete one as I can't be bothered to work it out. It takes time for the old food to get out of their systems so don't expect instant results but lots of people have very good results with feeding hyper dogs raw. My Border Collie is very calm but has been fed raw from the day we got him.
It would be a good idea to get him checked out at the vets if the weeing has just started as he may have an infection.

He needs a vet check - he could have an infection before you go any further if the weeing is a new thing. I would do this asap - today if poss.

Nutriment would be fantastic for his behaviour - it may cause problems with your DC but if you have only one draw in the freezer this would be enough space to feed a 20kg dog for a month. The food is frozen in large sausages you defrost in a tub cut off what you need - no raw meat lying around just wash the dog bowl when they have finished eating as you would anyway.