Where the Wild Things Are

[barbarianoftheuniverse]

I have an eight month old Border Collie called Meg. She is far from perfect (and so am I).
Today she has been about 60/40 good. The 40 included chewing up my camera memory card which DH is sure he put safely on the mantelpiece. Every time I look down at this screen she takes a quick munch of the coffee table with her eyes on mine. This despite a 2 hour walk which included much in and out of streams.

Having chatted to some people with experience and watched these two videos m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=HSwa-VV-4CM m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=GCWLn9Om_m4 I am not in any doubt at all. This is classic Maz when he was having his tummy episodes and way I nearly drove myself demented trying to find a food that suits.

The good thing is that I have by happy accident done the very thing that the lady who did fought to get in recognised recommends so in one way, one worry is off as it is already under control. It has only happened a couple of times since raw feeding. He shakes too whilst it happens which is typical. I am just worried and want to ask questions about progression (if indeed it does get worse) as some videos are awfully upsetting as some dogs also lose control of their legs etc. Although they are aware and concious their bodies look like they are fitting

I should qualify that with I am not saying I don't need the vets opinion, I know better I just mean that with the people I have talked through symptoms with who have lots of knowledge on it (been lucky enough to be put in touch with the lady I mentioned earlier too), videos watched and comparing pedigrees (it is genetic) I just feel sure.

A few people have said their vets had never heard of it until they took their dog (I supose with it being breed specific and only recognised within last 20 or so years). Will I look like a pratt if I ring ahead and pre warn them what I want to discuss?

Fan, sorry, I didn't want to read and run, but can't really help tonight as I'm a bit of a mess with stuff going on with ds1 and have just managed to alienate just about everyone on the SN boards chat thread.

I'm so sorry you are going through this, you must be really worried.

I don't think there's anything wrong with calling to have a chat with your vet, alerting them to your fears and asking them to either refer you to a specialist or book an appointment to discuss it all further. They can then do a bit of research before they see you and hopefully find out the best specialist to refer you on to.

He's a very lucky boy to have you. You've done all the right things instinctively and I think you should carry on trusting your instincts with this.

Thanks Moose...to be honest I don't think there is much to be done if I am honest which is why I haven't been banging down the door today. From what I have read most owners learn to manage it themselves and it doesn't seem to shorten life...just unpleasent when it happens. I think some drugs buscopan for one can help but a gluten free diet at the very least seems to help to minimise attacks with raw seeming preferable.

Been advised not to worm or vaccinate and do worm count and titre test too. This is where I struggle to go with the raw flow as every fibre in my body screams that this is what you do to protect your dog. Alot to read and discuss. Strangely I am awaiting coeliac screening and have chronic gut issues too, a 2nd colonoscopy is brewing I have been warned!

I am sorry you are having a tough day moose. Have and either or as preference dictates but I'll join in with as my guts can't deal with wine!

I can always stomach wine

How do you feel about your discovery fan, in control, or wish you hadn't known? Can you find out for sure by medical testing or will you even ask the vet? Sounds like Maz is doing fine on raw anyway, and your instincts were correct.

Poor you moose, please remember to breathe! Had a quick scan of SN, can't see you've alienated folk, and certainly not us anyway

First agility for Harry and I tonight, and it was great fun! Harry is KNACKERED and ran to bed as soon as he got in. He did really well, considering it was a riding school full of strange equipment, noise and DOGS! His focus on me was excellent, his springer nose took over a few times, he never ran off when off lead, loved the jumps and was utterly crap at the tunnel as he couldn't deal with me going to the other end, his instinct is to follow me. He did get on top of the tunnel more the IN the tunnel tbh!!

I was just as crap with it all, but have no doubt we will learn, Harry is a very well behaved dog who does check back to me constantly, we will learn how to do the stuff together and it was fun concentrating on him alone.

We actually had great fun, the trainer is super and the people really friendly, we won't ever be at Crufts though

I feel that we have it under control at the moment but a little scared for the future if that makes sense needa? I know we have it in hand now by happy accident. However, I feel a little alarmed by the unknown quantity element. I understand it is now a medically recognised condition. It is always mentioned on any breed profiles you read. Most places suggest it is hereditery (sp?) but then others who opinions I have valued say no it is years of processed foods and over vaccinating and in all BT strains so not a genetic issue. I feel under pressure all of a sudden to decide about things I have been doing for 18 mnths withput thought which is silly really as I know one more dose of advocate won't kill him whilst I research more Does that make sense.

A lovely lady who is involved in the fb page for the disease who everyone seemed to say 'wait for xxxx to come, she knows everything!' has given me her number to ring her when crufts is over , so I will do so I think. I have cried today watching sad videos of the dogs on their backs thrashing around spasming I don't want that for my boy. The lady who gave me her number said you test to exclude other things first and then safe to say CECS but she did agree that yes, sounds very likely it is CECS, as have a few others and he presents exactly like the dogs in those two videos...stretching and arching with a really loud belly noise.

Anyway, that it pretty self indulgent stuff isn't it! agility sounds like so much fun! We'd love it, shame Maz would just run off to cause havoc instead. I bet you can't wait to go back.

You can have wine, I'll have a nice cuppa and we will sit here and wait for Moose to finally cave in with her beverage of choice!

Moose - really sorry you're going through a tough time with other things. Wishing you lots of strength.

Fan - what an awful discovery, how upsetting. Like you say, at least you're already on raw and doing everything you can from a dietary perspective. Sounds like you're getting really on top of it with lots of information and vet opinion.

Needa - agility sounds brilliant. Is it tiring for you as the human?! I find puppy class really hard on my back with all the bending down business and that's despite having a tall dog! But I'm hoping agility will be more about fitness, running around and quite good physically for me as well as dog!

Just been to visit a dog boarder - my head is buzzing after spending an hour in a house/garden with minty (super bouncy puppy) and 5 other dogs (all older, some calm pottery types some leaping, zapping dogs!). It was amazingly calm, though there were moments of growling and putting-puppy-in-place from resident terrier! We are going to try a 24hr stay and see how all get on before committing to a week.

Fan, not self-indulgent at all and what you are saying makes perfect sense. I will stick to the with you, although only decaff, as I sleep badly enough as it is.

Mint, thanks for your support - I really appreciate it.

Dh has just found out from our LA that ds1 and the other pupils from our LEA have basically been caught in the crossfire of a huge political and funding row between the school and the LA. Strangely feel better now I know it's not just us and I wasn't over-reacting or being unreasonable. We have a tough few weeks ahead, but at least we know what we're up against now.

Pip seems to be full of the joys of spring today. A bit of sunshine and he's bouncing around like a spring lamb. He's been a welcome distraction for ds1 and has even managed to make him laugh, which is no mean feat at the moment.

That's good moose, that you are armed with facts at least.

I can imagine agility being good for fitness. You need to be coordinated, and I haven't quite worked that out yet i.e. when to throw the toy just as the obstacle is completed. And, I crashed into a jump that Harry had done perfectly

Apparently, I will need to be able to command left and right (obviously) but always the dogs left and right, even if I am not facing the same way. I am crap at that so that should be interesting

I decided to join my local park for £18 per annum. It's so lovely and, because we are so rural, very quiet, far more so than the busy one I often go to that is more central to the city. We had a wonderful walk, the dogs were so good and charged around like mad things.

We met a plethora of cockers too, mainly all black, Hector was in heaven . All with ace names such as Doris and Maggie and Marge etc. All beautifully behaved with lovely owners so he got a great play, he's completely fine with other dogs now.

Was especially proud of him when we turned a corner to find a reactive JRT on lead. Didn't have time to put mine on lead so they sat quietly and did a brilliant 'watch me' until he was far enough away. Hector then tried to chase after him but recalled first time. This has been my first real test of his training so I was pleased.

And the sun is shining so life is great anyway

I am sitting on the info I have and reading and digesting as I have a few questions for those in the know that I haven't had replies to before I run to the vets. He is symptom free at the moment so no urgency. Basically I want advice on when to blood test. If we are looking to exclude other things should I wait till the next episode? I just wonder if say, he is prone to gut infections say, wouldn't testing now just come back neg?

Have checked care plan we have at vets (alongside ins) and include twice annual health check and annual disgnostic blood tests if deemed necessary so hopefully can be done with that. Not sure if need to wait for next health check or not but will speak to them sooner (due april/may) depending on what I am advised about when to test because as we speak he is fit as a butchers!

Moose...I take it I have a fellow insomniac here? I have huge problems with sleep and have managed to create a whole anxiety bubble around bedtime now...how dh bed shares with me I will never know! I really feel for you with the problems with school/lea. There is nothing worse than feeling like you are being sacraficed for the arguements of others. But hopefully you know what you are up against now.

Sounds like a lovely place you have found there needa...dogs are going to be shattered! (or am I just being hopeful on your behalf!)

Sounds like you have found dog walking heaven needa. Maybe there's a bit of a Simpson's theme going on with Maggie and Marge and you'll meet Bart, Homer and Santa's Little Helper next time!

Well done Hector on your fantabulous recall - what a clever pup!

Fan, it's great that he's so fit and it may be that they just want to monitor for now and will either test when you have your next health check or if it's one of those things that only shows up when 'active', as it were, they will wait until/if he starts to show symptoms again.

Yep, I am an insomniac, have been for years. I hate going to bed because, like you, it's become a flash point for stress/anxiety. I have restless body legs syndrome and also suffer from episodes that the neuro is undecided as to whether may be epilepsy related. The only thing that reduces the anxiety is to try and have a degree of routine, so a Pukka Night-time tea and reading a couple of chapters of a non-challenging book. It doesn't necessarily help me sleep any better, but it stops me stressing that I won't. If I've been really bad and not slept for a long time I resort to taking cocodamol to knock myself out for a night.

The only thing I've found that helps a bit is Nelson's Noctura. I was very sceptical about them, but I actually do think I have better quality sleep if I take them and unlike some of the herbal ones, they don't leave me groggy in the morning. Currently trying L-Theanine supplements, but haven't made my mind up about them yet.

Mine started after am episode of Labyrinthitis. After the initial can't stand at all vertigo symptoms died down one of the worst symptoms was feeling movement like being on a boat when laid down. In went of for about 18 mnths to settlenin which time I had managed to start with anxiety about bed/sleep. I feel like a crazy person at bedtime and now have allsorts of nonsensical things I 'have' to do to go to bed (ritual like I guess if I am honest). I can hack the none sleep better than I can the 6 hours laid there feeling my heart leaping out of my chest! I take piriton every night too so you are not on your own with med cheats!

My 'rountine' is verging on slightly nutty now and my latest addition to it is Vicks on my feet. I did it when I had a cold, it became one of the 'things' and now I can't stop

Oh Labrythitis is evil dh had it a few years back. Our local Osteopath was the only thing that helped and the GP was amazed at how quickly he recovered enough to go back to work.

I hate that feeling too, lying there wide awake and feeling the panic rise. There was some question that my 'query' seizures were actually some sort of panic attack, but they think they've ruled that out now.

We do Vicks on your feet for a cold too - but can't say we do it for everyday bedtimes.

Would you maybe consider trying some CBT for it? I believe it can work very quickly for specific anxieties.

I would Moose but these things seem to be near inpossible to get on NHS and I can't afford to pay...that money goes on sorting Maz out instead. He plays his part in ensuring I can't completely lose the plot anyway so he is worth it!

I muddle through in my own little way, and whilst my vicks habit is abit odd, it hurts no one. Thats what I keep telling DH when he rolls his eyes at me anyway .

I have more pressing issues at the minute to bother GP with as IBS symptoms have escalated to epic proportions now and have been quite poorly. Need that sorting before we tackle my erm night time quirkiness GP knows about it and agrees one at a time! Coeliac testing first and then camera to check again for Crohns etc which is an immediate family thing. Talk about dogs being like their owners eh? Do you reckon I need a raw diet?

I'd second that idea about CBT Moose - very good for anxieties and also for tackling insomnia. Much better for insomnia than sleeping tablets as the latter change the structure of your sleep so you miss out on some of the best restorative properties of sleep, even though they knock you out so you do actually sleep IYSWIM. Whereas CBT does not alter the sleep make up at all and can be very effective for some people.

GP should be able to refer for CBT though waiting lists can be long. But like you say Fan, maybe one step at a time.

Do you think changing a dogs diet to better quality food can change their behaviour in a week? And I hope I haven't already asked this as I'm sure I have asked someone this question recently and my head is full of migraine today so I can't remember if I asked in RL or on here!! Is that really embarrassing? Better not tell my teenage son that I'm confusing RL and MN or I would get serious eye rolling!

I changed minty a week ago and over the last 2-3 days I've noticed a massive change in behaviour - tonight for example 6 people for tea, loads of dishes being carried out, noise, smells and he lay beautifully by dining table watching it all save for few minutes of barking. We've had stair gate open - no charging upstairs, no leaping at my dad tonight, my dad stuck a newspaper between him and dog so dog walked off. Last week he was pawing at my dad then barking! Such a difference.

Moose - dogs really do play a wonderful role within a family don't they? With their capacity to distract and cheer people up. Hope your DS is OK.

Fan, definitely one thing at a time and ... step away from the raw chicken wings! Ds1 is gluten free after his coeliac test was messed up and I refused to put him through any further tests, as his food diary and reactions were clear enough. Paed said he couldn't give him prescription food, but that he wanted him to be treated as if he's coeliac anyway, as all the indications were there. It's made a huge different from him removing gluten from his diet and if he has so much as a tiny cross-contamination these days the results are nasty for him. Poor lad, he has so much to deal with.

Mint, yes diet can have a really rapid effect on a dog's behaviour good or bad depending on which way it's changed. So Minty's exemplary behaviour this evening could well have a lot to do with his diet.

Ds is doing ok thank you. He slept last night for the first time in weeks - once he knew he didn't have to face school today. We're going to have a quiet weekend and take the dogs out somewhere nice, as ds always does best out in the country or on the beach. Things are a real mess and very complicated with the LEA and school, but at least we know what we're up against now.

Caught the Irish Wolfhound winning the Hound Group on Crufts when I was channel hopping this evening. Now all 3 dcs want a Wolfhound!

I'm too scared to try sleeping pills anyway Mint. I think I have a reasonably good rapport with my dr but he always shakes his head at my refusals to try certain things...sleeping pills, anti anxiety meds and co codomol amongst them. I know, what I am like, I can see myself relying on them quickly and I am a firm believer in not giving in. But I do need to sort out the scariest of the ibs symptoms first.

DH is bi-polar, diagnosed for nearly 7 years. Finally decided to take medication precisely 5 weeks ago. The difference in him is remarkable, the change in our family is remarkable. I supported his decision not to medicate, but can't help but feel some anger that we have had to endure the last 7 years. (silly anger, will get over it )

Anyway, DH is now away on business for a week, the DC are at various parties, and I am here with a wine and a pizza, which is my own particualr medication!

The dogs have been great today, Hector is 15 weeks today and, so far, all his experiences have been positive. Lovely dogs we met today, and he's actively seeking introductions now, which have been politely accepted. Really hoping the groundwork has been worth it, and we get another lovely dog

I heard a great quote on sheepdog/collies from a lady who has 6 of them!
"Walking them all day to wear them out doesn't work to keep them quiet...they just get fitter" :P
Trying brain and thinking related exercises as well as the exercise may help though....collies are the smartest dog breed in the world and there are hundreds of tricks out there to teach..youtube is great for ideas..

Shes also still at the age where he adult teeth may still be coming through. So having a good supply of bones and chew toys to give her when shes in chewing mode as an alternative to helping herself to the table or other undesirable objects can help. Helps if they are given rather than freely avaiable as this makes them more desirable.
if you see her eying the table or looking for mischief distract her with an approved toy or by getting her to use her head to do tricks or obedience training.
Kongs can be filled with food to keep them busy for a while for the smarter dog they can also be frozen to make them last longer....my mutt whos part collie(wasnt quite brave enough to take on a pure collie though they are one of my favourite dog types) is kept content and quiet by giving her a bone/pizzle stick or oxtail,in my case she is crate trained so she eats them in there as well.Keeps her busy while I can get on with things

Needa - if your DH has been coping with that for so long, it was a really brave step to start meds. You've just got to let go of the last7 yrs and think he was trying to do his best during that time, but would have had no idea what a difference medication can make. Brave step and it's really good that it's working out so well.

I would be there joining you in wine and pizza but I've had a pie, peas and cider night in the local with the girls! Funny how people divide into 'dog' people and 'don't get it' non-dog people! Hope I've not become a dog-bore with the non-dog people, I do try to manage a whole conversation without mentioning minty but I'm afraid I'm more interested in talking about him nowadays than almost any other topic! I'll get over myself soon I'm sure.

Ha - I suspect I am a dog bore now, but try hard not to be, get my fix on here. Pie, peas and cider sounds like my kind of night out.

Agree, my sensible head says absolutely let go, the emotional side is trying to catch up a little, it's been a bit of a rollercoaster at times. The illness doesn't just affect the person who has it, has such an impact on the folk who love the person the most, but hopefully, we are getting there.

Weather super here already, so might get some gardening done today, and just going to walk my two now.

MInty sounds like such a character.

Beautiful with us here too so just cooked sausages for minty for an early walk. DS2 just had minor meltdown as he could smell the sausage, assumed it was his breakfast and was rather upset to find his usual fried egg on toast and no sausage (he couldn't even pinch them as they're cheap & cheery ones not gluten free DS specials!)

Minty is a bit of a character! He gets lots of adoration for being so fluffy and knows how to get lots of fussing!

You're right Needa about impact on family. So many relationships break down before the stage you're at so you and your DH sound like a really strong support unit.

After a couple weeks discussing/persuading kids that we should not take dog on holiday with us to Scotland as him and my elderly father do not mix well and it's a 10hr drive which is no fun for a bouncy puppy - kids finally agreed but the dog boarder is full that week!

Minty passed his assessment at dog boarders, she has said she'd be happy to take him as he got on with her dogs really well but she's fully booked.

Not sure whether to look at either alternative local dog boarder who our dog trainer described as "chaotic" or the kennels nearby. How bad can chaotic be? Will
Minty feel forlorn and abandoned in kennels? My old dog used to not eat at all in kennels - he was skinny anyway but a week in kennels and he used to come home amasciated.

I think the word is emasciated - no excuse really for such shoddy spelling!