Recall advice - just had scary incident in the park

[SadEyedLady]

Hi, long time lurker here, I've just had a really horrible incident in my local park and I was hoping to ask some advice and see what I'm doing wrong.

I have a three-year-old labradoodle, very springy, lots of energy, thinks everyone is his best friend. From a puppy he has loved meeting new people, and my DH and I have worked hard on stopping him running up to strangers as I know many people are scared of dogs/don't want to see one right now thanks very much. 95% of the time he is brilliant, will come straight back when you call (he's actually less interested now that he's older anyway), it's just sometimes, and I can tell when this is, his attention 'locks on' to someone/another dog, and he rushes over, with us in quick pursuit apologising profusely. He usually runs round them in a circle, showing them his toy, only on very rare occasions jumping. Still not good enough I know.

Today I was at the park with him off the lead as he was playing fetch with the ball (his favourite thing). A young man with a pit-bull type young puppy not on a lead came walking past us about 20 m away. I saw my dog see the puppy and start to run over, I followed quickly calling him back. The man immediately snarled 'get your dog on the fucking lead' and, on my dog sniffing the puppy's bum, picked the puppy up and held it over his head by by his harness. My dog I assume thought this was a game, and jumped up (awful I know, and I was trying to grab his collar), he then said 'get your fucking dog away, or I'll kick its fucking head in', and then proceeded to kick my dog in the head pretty hard. I finally managed to grab my dog and he was ranting at me about my aggressive dog, and calling me a fucking cunt. I was pretty shaken up by this time and clipped the lead on and started to walk home, followed by this man shouting abuse at me and telling me if my dog came near his again he would fucking stab it. I left the park in tears.

I am now terrified at the thought of having to walk my dog again. DH says that man was a loon and obviously it wasn't my fault. I know my dog wasn't being aggressive, some normal doggy behaviour was misinterpreted by this man, but likewise I should be able to control my dog at all times and not be walking on eggshells at the thought of him running off. I can have 5 walks in a row where he does nothing and will always return when called, but there are these 'wildcard' occasions where he just won't listen, and the thought of seeing this man again makes my blood run cold. Obviously I know I need to get his attention before he gets too focused on whatever his object is, and I will start carrying treats and praising for immediate return. Is there anything else I can try? Still feeling so shaken up. Thanks.

Re the OP you have to train your dogs in the situations that he finds difficult, so get together with other owners and train your dog to recall with distractions.

It's definitely what happens here ilove. Also there are groups that have organised themselves informally. So a big group of playful dogs/puppies meets at around 9.30 every day & people who don't want to be part of that avoid that time. I try to coincide our walks with other ball obsessives because the dogs them charge around with their balls occasionally saying hello to each other but not interrupting each others games while the owners have a chat. Like you I ensure my dog doesn't go near any dog on a lead but I expect dogs off lead to approach him.

Big hugs. The man totally over reacted. I keep my daft mutt on a lead as he's unpredictable and I can't figure out if hell take a snap at another dog or wag his tail (sometimes he manages both at the same time). I occasionally get dogs running up to him and I position myself between both of then whilst advising owner it's best to get their dog. Most are already coming over anyway apologising, at which point so do I for mine being a bit grumpy at times.

Sorry nutty I disagree. Recall can never, ever be 100%. Dogs aren't robots and it is up to an owner to know their dog and get them back on lead so they can't practice and perfect running off after other dogs.

Labs are well known for thinking every dog they see is a potential best buddy. It is a breed trait. And as the dog in question is a doodle he has obviously inherited this trait. OP you need to get eyes in the back of your head. The bloke over reacted but you need to stop your dog from doing this as it is self rewarding.

Dogs are really not robots absolutely agree, but on day to day encounters my dogs will be 100% reliable, calling from other dogs, calling off food, calling from other animals, calling from other people. This is because I have spent time and energy proofing and training my dogs to do this. I have a lab that will recall through sausages left on the floor to come back to me so don't blame it on the breed

My dogs also have a very solid down and stay so I do have control over them in all the day to day situations. They have also been trained to walk to heel off lead passed dogs and will only go to them if they are given a command - just for the record this is all trained using positive training methods.

But this thread is not about my dogs or my training it is about keeping dogs under control and all owners have a responsibility to do this.If you do not have a good recall no problem just keep your dog on a long line or lead.

hi, my dog does the same but he is a GSD and is 6 months old. we are going to training classes each week and the trainer has said use a long line until recall is more or less perfected.

9 times out of 10 my dog lstens to me and comes back immediately, but there is always that 1 time....

so we are practising using a long line (100ft - ebay cheap as chips) and i also cook liver for ages on a low heat in the bottom of the oven until totally dried out and i chop it into tiny bits and use this to treat him - he loves it and will virtually do anything for it!

is there a training class you could go to? my dog was brilliant today - he ignored all the other dogs and came back immediately 5 times, but its taken lots of work around other dogs to get there.

trainer also says you should be the most fun thing in your dogs life - not other dogs so best to try and get your dog to ignore them - otherwise why would he come back if he has found something much more fun than you?

try the liver.
try the long line
and try to find a class - we have been for 5 weeks and now he is moving up to the junior class. its worth it.

oh and that fella in the park was a prize cock....

cant see any point in reporting now (am in police) without identity he is long gone.
as long as your dog is ok i would chalk today up to him being a dickhead, and be assured that his reaction wasnt normal.

My Lab recalls from chasing deer but sometimes the prospect of another dog is way too much, set them up for success

My sil's guide dog is rubbish at recall, which isn't very good. He's quite new and a lab. Her previous dogs had amazing recall, so I don't think its anything that shes not doing right. Even guide dogs have admitted he's failing in this area, despite training with her they haven't managed to make much improvement.

What a horrible experience SadEye. Hope you and your dog are okay now. This sort of experience makes you feel so shaky and smashes any confidence, but the good thing is it shows the gaps in our experience and I'm so grateful you have posted as it has given me some tips on recall and long lines until my dog's recall becomes solid. Also, it's great the experienced owners have confirmed that any dog can have a wobble sometimes, otherwise I would have read the thread and felt worried about allowing my dog to sniff bottoms with other dogs , who are off lead etc.

Thanks for the advice and kind words . Feeling much less shaken now. Need to get some resilience, and also I think the long lead would be a great idea, so I could stamp on the end before he gets there! I'm 100% aware that a lot of people don't want be be approached by a dog, so it needs much more work. Dog seems perfectly ok, even a kick in the chops doesn't dent his spirit!

Also, Nuttymutty, you obviously have so much experience and have trained your dogs so well. It is a shame that you say why would you want to mix your dogs with some poorly socialised dog. Apart from the bits I practice time and time again with my dog at home , it's the experienced owners, with the beautifully behaved dogs I have to thank, for allowing my puppy socialise with their dogs ( I always asked first and kept my dog on a lead) they have allowed my dog a few minutes if their time, offered ideas and encouragement and fun too for my puppy. She is now quite a well socialised dog, but no yet with perfect recall. I am working on this. We need people like you!

Make sure you only attach a long line to a harness and not a collar.

countrywalks I am a behaviourist I spend my life training and helping to train other peoples dogs and my dogs do act as stooge dogs to help with others training. So on their time off they are entitled to some down time to chill without being pestered by other dogs and I make sure they get it

Sorry Nuttymutty, that's fair enough. But at least we get your experience on here!

The man was inexcusably rude and aggressive. No question.

Can I just say though that as someone with elderly and reactive dogs, we try very hard to find somewhere quiet to walk (avoiding the offlead ballplay gangs) and it is quite a challenge not to be rude when you are all quietly walking along, on lead, minding your own business, when a bouncy Lab or Doodle (and it's always a sodding Lab or x ) comes hurtling over with an owner half a mile away, either engrossed in a phone conversation, or occasionally the dreaded remark "He only wants to play". Last week an off lead Lab caused mayhem in the park, winding up ours, knocking over a tiny terrier, and nearly knocking an elderly couple off their feet - we had to help them. The owner was completely oblivious till she returned about 15 minutes later.

It might also be worth asking your trainer or your local sighthound charity if they have a field/paddock or similar for secure offlead play. This is perfect for practising recall - alternatively, indoor riding schools are perfect or even outdoor menages if you know anyone with horses.

And thank you for realising this needs to be addressed. Every dog will at some point need space and an undisturbed walk - could be post-op, recovering from illness, getting older or with arthritis. Our lovely 12 year old boy has been doing great work with BAT - he's now passing other dogs nicely on the lead, but these sorts of offlead encounters put his training right back. His eyesight's quite poor now and he's arthritic so it's no surprise he's a bit nervous of fast, big, unknown dogs approaching.

I'm so sorry sad eyed lady about what you have just been through. It's disgusting that anyone should shout abuse at another person. I would definitely report the incident even though you can't remember much about his appearance. He threatened to stab him next time which implies he carries a knife on him? The police need to know this IMO. Dogs are animals and sometimes forget good manners, just try and work on this and you can build your confidence up. Dog walking should be a pleasure, I think some owners should get off their high horse and remember that most of us are trying to do the right thing and not deliberately trying to antagonize other owners. I'm sorry to say but nutty mutts, you are wrong about dogs not sniffing other dogs and also wrong for calling the op a poor owner!

MilkybarsrusSome dogs do like to be social and speak to dogs, other dogs do not. It is not a given that all dogs like all dogs to come and sniff their bottoms

Usually the dogs that are desperate to play with other dogs have been ignored on the walk with their owners and just let out of the boot of the car and walked with no interaction with their owners for 40 mins then back into the car and back home. Dogs do like to explore and do different things but this can be interaction with their owner more than a bit of dog bum sniffing .

Look at dogs body language when you are out today with your dog - you will notice a large percentage of dogs DO not want your dog coming up to them but they are polite and deal with it and try to avoid more interaction. Poorly socialised dogs will try even harder to make these dogs interact, owners need to be aware and prevent this from happening.

Not commenting on the dog behaviour aspect but agree that you still need to report this man (little description or otherwise) to the police. His behaviour was entirely on the wrong side of acceptable and I would want the police to be able for form an idea that he's around their parks.

I honestly don't know what the police could do. We had a previous incident out with the dog where DH ended up breaking his arm - I know this is going to sound like we're rubbish owners, keep having 'incidents' but we were walking along the main road with our dog on a lead, a man with three large mastiff-type dogs came out of a side street and his dogs lunged for ours, DH had to swing our dog out of the way or he would have got bitten, he then got knocked down by the other dogs, falling and breaking his arm. We tried reporting to the police then and they said there was nothing they could do. There are a lot of poorly socialised dogs round our way, by and large I don't think our dog is too bad, he mostly ignores other dogs apart from these occasional mad moments, which I am working on. I'd hate to have him on the lead the whole time as his favourite thing is to fetch balls from the ball-launcher, and he will focus on this and not other dogs the vast majority of the time. But if that's what's required I will do it.

I do have no doubt that this guy would stab my dog if he got the opportunity though, I have never experienced such naked aggression, it totally shook me up and I'm actually quite scared of going out with the dog now in case I see him again. I think my DH will have to walk him for a bit.

its so difficult, I have an on lead dog, he was attacked by a Staffordshire bull terrier and a jack Russell, and is petrified of dogs coming towards him, we've tried all orts of training but nothing has worked, so he's always walked on lead now. Other peoples dogs coming bounding over with the owner shouting he only wants to play cause's me and the dc unnecessary stress. Before he as attacked he was fine of his lead with a good reliable recall and I always worked under the theory of an onlead dog, mine get called back and leads put on or we about turn and go in different direction, if off lead its all fair game and they can play and if take a disagreement to each other then put them on lead and walk away.

The man was completely out of order in the way that he spoke to you and for kicking your dog, but if your dog had been under control, ie as soon as you saw the puppy on a lead you call yours back and he comes back, then this wouldn't have happened.

I'd also review where you're walking your dog if there are so many untrained types about.

Yep, I agree Vickiyumyum, though his puppy wasn't on a lead either...

Report this guy to the police. There was no need to swear or be aggressive, and there was certainly no need to continue it by following you!

However, your dog needs to be under control 100 percent if the time. If he is at risk of not coming back to you when you call him, keep him on a lead. Most people understand, I certainly would, and have had energetic dogs come running over ignoring the rest of the world, and it's not been been a problem when I'm alone.

However, I sometimes walk my dad's dog. He is an incredibly well trained, large dog. He is always kept on a lead because he does not socialise with other dogs well. He will quite happily walk past them and ignore them, as long as they keep away from him, he isn't bothered. I have, on more than one occasion, had other dogs running up to him wanting to play, with their owners running behind their dogs shouting 'he's fine with other dogs, he only wants to play'. That conversation usually goes along the line of 'Well that's lovely, but for the safety of YOUR dog, put it back on its lead. This one is not fine with other dogs.' I'm not going to refuse to walk my dad's dog because he isn't fond of other dogs, but I am going to do my best to minimise risk by walking him at quiet times of the day and keeping him on a lead. And I expect everyone else to do the same if they have a dog that they are not 100 percent confident of being in control with.

Sorry sad I read it as the puppy was on a lead