Now I am seriously upset

[ADishBestEatenCold]

Was in a friends house today and saw a short bit of an (american) tv show she was watching and now I am seriously upset.

It was about a 'dog whisperer' (a man, didn't catch his name) who was visiting a female dog owner to try and 'help' with the behavioral problems of her little yorkshire terrier. The 'problems' seemed to be that

1. the dog kept retreating into his cage/pet carrier, then wouldn't come out, having to be tipped out or hauled out by the owner who would wear oven gloves
2. that the dog would get aggressive when randomly grabbed (and I do mean 'grabbed'!) tipped on to it's back on the floor and held down
3. that the dog snapped and bit (did I say 'bit', it positively guzzled) in retaliation to 1 and 2.

The 'dog whisperer' chap's role seemed to be to force the dog to submit to these two actions (and maybe other actions) by the owner, without defending itself with aggressive reaction.

This little dog was about ten inches high and was completely blind! It was frantic!! It was wedging itself into it's tiny pet carrier and you could virtually see every nerve standing out of it's body. You wouldn't need to be a blood dog whisperer or even Eliza Doolittle to be able to accurately translate what this dog was saying.

At one point the 'dog whisperer' lured it out of the cage with some treats and I felt myself relaxing a little, thinking it wasn't as bad as I thought. But no! It was!! As soon as the little dog cleared the carrier, he swooped on it ( blind, remember, it couldn't even see him coming ), tipped it on it's back and held it down. Then he handed it to the jailer owner, so she could tip it on it's back and hold it down a couple of times.

I cannot believe this is allowed on UK television. I know bad things happen to animals, so it's maybe ridiculous for me to be upset by this, but to present it in the guise of training or dog whispering.

Shit! I wanted to punch them!!

Good for Alan titchmarsh :) the last time I watched him though he had les Patterson on and I hadn't realised he was a comedy character, I thought it was the real chap with his dame Edna on and I started a thread on another forum saying he seemed really confused, was he ill? Why had let him on etc

A good website to refer to includes a press statement released by a number of prominent organisations in 2010, criticising aversive techniques. Hopefully some people are more likely to listen of the RSPCA and Dogs Trust are behind it.

www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/press-statement.php

Thanks for the link to that website cashew. It has some really good evidence to refer people to.

I collect articles and blogs on why punitive methods shouldn't be used. Came across these vile people that way.

"I collect articles and blogs on why punitive methods shouldn't be used. Came across these vile people that way."

And it's a good job that you do, Lilcamper. Already (with my grand total of two days worth of knowledge of these 'whisperers'!) I can see that it's likely that as fast as one slides out of the marketplace, another pops up to take their place.

They are all over the place! Edinburgh
Dorset, that's just off the top of my head.

Another one north of the border Scotland

I was really pleased to find the closest dog club to my house is just at the end of the road, so an easy distance for me to get to for classes, as I don't drive.

Then I looked on their website. They sell half-checks to every client and their home-page talks about the importance of being your dog's 'leader' and showing them who's in charge. Massive alarm bells went off and I started searching for another club.

Next closest club - and the one most people attend around here - same story - check chains and pack theory.

I finally found one that I had to get a lift to get to, but was totally positive and full of like-minded trainers who would never do anything harsh or negative to their dogs. Despite it being a complete pain in the rear to get there every week I enrolled on their course and my pup thrived. I dread to think what would have happened if some of the first-time owners at our club had ended up at one of the other two.

It's depressing just how common punitive/coercive training methods still are.

Took me 18 months to find the right trainer for my Boy and I travel quite a distance to get there.....I work for her now though

When I lived in Lancashire we used to travel an 80 mile round trip 2-3 times a week to get to the club we wanted to attend. It was worth every drop of petrol.

Sadly it would be more like 160 miles one way to get there from where we live now!

Not sure what I miss more - the club ... or the dog walking on the beach!

I've never seen that clip before. You go Alan!

If, like me, you want to help to change things, you can do your bit. Sign up to local Facebook pet groups and gently and politely counter the dominance rubbish by providing good links to more modern trainers, the APBCwebsite .

Posted too soon

The APDT, Dogs Trust, Victoria Stilwell etc. Every little helps x

I do already cashew

:)

LEMmingaround - Cesar Milan is absolutely NOT a cunt. As my DFIL is so fond of saying... "Cunts are useful". Therefore, CM can't be a cunt.

However, I do absolutely concede that Cesar Milan is a total waste of space, oxygen and is worse than shit on my shoe. I've also been known to have a tourettes outburst about the man at the local vets

I love Victoria Stillwell. She is firm but kind, and I've used a lot of her methods with my nervy spaniel. It's really hard to find a trainer who doesn't ascribe to pack theory unless you know who to look for. I had the misfortune to attend one session with a trainer of problem dogs with the spaniel. She blew an air horn in his face and hit him. I didn't intervene and hate myself for it. After all, she was the expert. Took weeks to put my boy right again.

Snakey that's horrific! Complain complain complain and bad reviews everywhere. That's just not ok on any level :(

In the United States, they estimate he has set them back 20 years.

The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behaviour went to great lengths to re-educate the public. As part of the education, they put out two position statements, both excellent:

Dominance: avsabonline.org/uploads/position_statements/dominance_statement.pdf

Punishment:
avsabonline.org/uploads/position_statements/Combined_Punishment_Statements1-25-13.pdf

Sadly, this trainer is in high demand. She has trained crufts winners and is highly regarded by a lot of gun dog owners. She actually told me that because I was so soft on him and he was the boss, he held me in contempt and that he would end up loving her more. I wasn't in a good place at the time, and it was very upsetting. I still feel guilty for not just telling her to fuck off and give me my dog back. It has made me wary of attending any training classes, tbh, and I prefer to muddle along using Victoria Stillwell's ideas and managing his stress levels. Never again.

I travel to get to my training class too as the one closest to me also believes in dominance and pack theory! The class I attend is a positive training school. I think if anyone brought along a horn or hit their dog they would go ballistic but don't feel bad snakey please. She sounds extremely over bearing x