Not loving the pup

[minkersmum]

We have a 7 year old dog and recently got a little bc dog pup. I had been really keen for another dog but wanted a small bitch. We don't really have space in car for two big dogs and this was why I wanted small bitch. Also really miss having a girl dog, lost my two old girls over past few years and dh chose the 7 yo dog as a 4 yo rescue 3 years ago.

I love the 7 yo dog to bits despite him having quirks!! We go to training classes and he is great there but out and about he can be a handful.

Dh wasn't keen for another dov st all.

Is there more you forgot to post?

Oops hit the wrong button! Sorry on phone!
As i was saying....

Dh wasn't keen. We had argued about it but he had left it saying he knows i will get one regardless but obviously i wanted his support. Its a big thing and although i do most of the care he does more than half of the walking.

So i was taking my time looking for a small adult female dog. I decided an adult better because we have 3 dc (5,7 and 9) and although I think it is a nice romantic idea kids +puppies growing together I think the reality is quite different.

Don't want to drip feed but also trying to keep it as shirt as poss.

Dh comes to rescue centre to see an adult small female daxi and says no way, he'd trip over it, our other dog would bundle it (he is a big numpty)

So we came home with a 12 week old bc male. I am not loving him at all. He is a lovely pup but older dog not loving him and he is such hard work with the dc together with the fact that I really didn't want another large male dog. I feel completely depressed and wish I had stuck to my guns.

Not surprised. You didnt exactly put much thought into getting the right dog at all. You argued about it and just took what was there that dh would accept. Recipe for disaster.

No sympathy from me but take the puppy back to the rescue.

You have a high drive intelligent dog that will need hours of your time for the rest of its life. You made a reckless decision and it is now time to correct this and do the best thing for the poor puppy.

You have picked just about the hardest breed you could have possibly chosen. I say picked, but little thought has gone into it at all, poor little pup
Aside from lots of physical exercise(much more than an average dog) , you will have to mentally stimulate him every day and 'work' him in order to keep him happy and prevent him becoming neurotic, destructive and a miserable 'problem dog'

Take him back. Don't get another dog until you can all agree on the type and have properly thought it through, if at all.

Jeez forgot how supportive mumsnet can be

I realise I have a puppy who will become a 'high drive intelligent' dog which is exactly why I am apprehensive. Yes I did just take what dh decided and perhaps that was reckless. I had been looking at dogs constantly for months before that and also walking dogs for the rescue centre. All in the bid to find the 'right' dog. I regret being 'reckless' and just accepting what dh decided but when faced with a litter of unwanted puppies it is very hard to say 'actually that isn't what I want, its the wrong breed, gender and size'. I felt like being so choosey was a bit 'spoiled', here is me desperate for another dog but then presented with a dog needing a home I say no. I should have listened to my gut feeling, i cried many times between reserving him and bringing him home. It didn't help that the rescue centre woman is not a bc fan and made that clear telling me 'yeah hood luck with that one' which has given me a horrible feeling of impending doom since.

I am doing my best, i want it to work but I needed to vent about how I am feeling, hoping for some support rather than a flaming. I have toilet trained him, feed him well, have taught him at least half a dozen words, enrolled him in puppy socialisation classes and also training class. But the facts are I am completely stressed. My older dog is constantly growly and telling pup off which pups me on edge. I am constantly watching for all the collie traits that I will need to ensure don't become a problem. I am at home full time so i am with him pretty much constantly which means I rarely have a break from him.

I was really looking for reassurance. I'm not sure why I am being flamed for being honest. There are people all over taking dogs on wiyhout a second thought with no idea of the commitment involved. I am not one of those people. I have had dogs all my life. They are part of the family, come on holiday with us, eat well and get plenty of walks. Is my situation really so dire or unusual that I deserve a flaming?

Pups me on edge.... that was a slip...

Incase it wasn't clear, i know these things about the bc. My old girl who died last year was a collie/terrier cross. She was 18 when she died so I had her most of my life, ALL my adult life. She was a rescue at a year old. She was nervous, destructive, and had seperation anxiety when I got her. She was the best dog i have ever had. I recognised her needs and once met she gave me nothing but loyalty and devotion.

Again, was hoping for someone to tell me it is normal not to instantly love the little balls of teeth that are as much work as a baby except you haven't carried and bonded with them for 40 weeks....

Thanks guys!

Really hope you can start to bond with your new pup soon. Don't have much advice I'm afraid but it may help to know that I was quite apprehensive when we adopted my mum in laws 11 year old black lab (MIL had to go into care home). The extra work coupled with a very outraged cat made me doubt our decision but after a few months she settled and is now a very loved member of the family - even our cat adores her and they sleep curled up together. Good luck.

It takes time to bond, with all our pups when we first got them I still remember panicking if we had done the right thing by having another dog and if we had right breed etc. now, everyone has settled, love the dogs to bits, kids love them too, and wouldn't change it for the world!
I'm sure you will all settle soon, even if it's not the dog you thought you would end up with. Sounds like your being responsible with food, training etc x

Thing is I do feel 'warm' towards him. He has been a good pup in many ways. Obviously brightband receptive to training. The stress is older dog not loving him yet and yesterday was first time pup was allowed out for a walk (vaccs) so he has been house/garden bound for past few weeks. Now i am anticipating seeing a the collie traits and getting all worried before I even know which ones he has!! I need to relax but i'm probably a bit of a bc myself!

If my older dog could start relaxing around him this would really help. Any tips? Fed seperately, seperate beds, each do stuff individually and also apart.

I think its quite normal for you to feel like this - there was a similar thread the other week, that poster was flamed too.

It does sound like you were pushed into taking this dog by the rescue centre, but you have him now and you WILL grow to love him. I promise you that. I have owned four dogs as an adult where i have been responsible for them. Every time i think i have sat there looking at them thinking oh my fuck, this was a huge mistake, panic panic panic. One of them, a rescue with massive issues (which we knew about when we took him on but didnt realise they were quite so severe) gave me heart ache for months - i shed a lot of tears over that dog (he was aggressive and huge) but i shed more when i lost him after he became a much loved member of the family.

You say you do training with the older dog - you can do that with the puppy - he sounds like he would make a great agility dog and you clearly have the experience and knowledge to make him into a really great dog - you'll be the best of friends.

As for the other dog not loving him - my JRT1 was less than impressed with JRT2 when we brought him home. They still are two very serparate entities but they play together too much, it drives me nuts and we call it terrier wars and occasionally will find them snuggled on the sofa together. That will come too.

I am sorry you got flammed, i don't think i know anyone who didn't have a bit of regret when they get a dog. Even if you got the dog that on paper you wanted, there would be some element of regret - its a major life change, there is a new family member and you didn't have nine months to get used to the idea before it happened!

Sounds like you are doing the right thing with the dogs - not sure i would do anything differently. The older dog has his nose out of joint but it will pass. We didn't feed separately and more often and not they feed out of the same bowl, even though we put two down Maybe you could give them treats together, so that he associates the new dog with good things. But in all honesty, i think you just have to give them time.

I felt exactly the same as you with ddog1, and he was chosen carefully! FWIW we have a 15 month old springer and an 11 week old working cocker, so both are intelligent and high energy.

I wanted to do it 'right' with the first dog, and spent a long time reading and researching. I spent the first months stressed and anxious and struggling with him, when actually, he's a lovely, calm, placid dog. He enjoys a lot of exercise, but so do we.

It took a lot of time, but once I relaxed, enjoyed him and stopped feeling I must do this and must do that, the feelings came. Folk on here were very supportive.

The new puppy is very hard work, as puppies are, there's no denying that, but I love him to bits already.

Try not to look for the breed traits, folk kind of gulped when we said we were getting a springer as a first dog, but we meet his needs, mentally and physically, which is sounds like you are doing. If you love them and give them what they need, there's no reason why those traits will be negative.

BC's I would imagine will be great fun to do agility etc with?

Give yourself a break and time. Don't forget that you might be bloody annoyed with DH, which might be clouding your judgement.

And, unlike DC, pups grow fast, it will be hard work for a year, but then you will have many years of great fun.

You were flamed because your original post as you describe it showed complete lack of thought or care. It did not also show any signs of you be ing willing to put in the work you will be required to do. However your other posts have made things clearer so sorry if I judged harshly.

BC are fantastic dogs, they will do anything for you and will be the most loyal loving remarkable dogs. They do however require input from you. If you are up to daily training sessions for hopefully the next 16 years then relax and begin to enjoy your new dog.

Re your other dog, everytime the puppy is around give your old dog a tasty treat - soon puppy will equal something nice. Do keep the puppy from pestering the dog if he obviously shows signs of not liking the interaction. Some dogs are too polite and the puppy can get away with murder make sure you do interact. Do not let them sort it out themselves.

Collie traits are traits to be encouraged but in the right situation when it is appropriate. So gentle slow socialisation should be starting now. Introduce the puppy to traffic but keep him working doing things for you, rather than fixating on the traffic and learning to chase it.

Get involved with a positive training dog club, consider doing a dog sport, agility - you can be doing foundation training with the puppy at this age, or obedience. You will meet many BC owners who will help you if you do encounter any problems along the way.

Google Susan Garrett a brilliant American trainer who often does online courses which are great for BC. Puppy Peaks is fantastic

Also Devon Dogs Pup2perfection DVD is fantastic. - aimed at agility dogs but gives great basic foundation training dvd

Dont waste the fantastic opportunity you have to own a BC with worrying - get out there get involved and enjoy it - you are very very lucky

You got a flaming due to the lack of info you put in your OP. How can people be expected to know you've had collies before, know all about it etc etc when you don't say so? Your post read like you'd gone out to view a push bike and naively come home with a Ferrari! If that's not the case, then fair enough.
Fwiw I don't think many people if they are honest go through the traumas of puppyhood without some regrets! Stick with it and hopefully time will sort out the bonding

You will love him. I co-parent a border collie who was kind of foisted upon us as a 6month old puppy, our cherished older dog was disgusted. Once we got him obsessed with a toy and figured him out everyone loved him and now he's a chunky, fluffy, sensitive caring boy of 8years old.
Puppies are seriously hard work, border collie puppies are on a whole other level.
Pick him up and smell him, cuddle him when he sleeps, look at his weeny paws and teeth he won't be like this for long, they grow quickly into majestic lads.
Make a note of anything funny or cute he does each day and look at it when you're about to cry over pee and poo everywhere/your home being destroyed.
Teach him things, they need it. I taught the collie to smile, and bark when you say sheepdog, and he's developed those tricks himself even further.
You just have the horrors of 'what have I done?!' Any new parent gets. You'll love him really soon.

We took in a rescue bc dog, who had been badly treated, when we already had a bitch collie x who could be rather bossy with other dogs. I too had a few "what have I done" moments, but he's turned into the most fantastic and loyal dog. They've become really good mates and look after one another. The bc could have been a real problem dog (he was extremely submissive when we got him, with quite severe fear aggression), but my collie x seemed to know exactly what to do, and a calm environment has worked wonders for him. I had that typical first born anxiety with my first dog, when she was the friendliest calmest dog you could ever meet, but just completely relaxed with the second one, who could have been a real nightmare! And I'm sure that's what made him settle in so well.

So just relax and enjoy him. Your other dog will soon work out he's there to stay! And don't stress yourself looking out for collie traits - they pick up any anxiety from you, and collie traits are wonderful!

Thanks for all the reassuring posts. Sorry if op came across badly, I was typing whilst chaos descended around me.

I am not sure about the interaction betwern older dog and pup. The older dog does often look like he is enjoying it but it is very noisy and older dog definitrly trying to keep oup in his place. I am finding it hard knowing when I should allow them to get on with it and when to intervene.

Bought Pup a little chew bone thingy. Older dov has adult version but not fussed for it. However older dog liked pup one. Pup left it doen old dog picks it up and so this game started of pup stalking up to old dog, old dog growling but wagging tail, then pup lunges forward with a bark and then old dog chases him away!
Would you just leave them doing this or take bone away? I removed bone after ten mins as I couldn't relax with them making sooo much noise. Old dog very vocal anyway esp when playing but pup also has a really piercing bark!!!

Sorry about all the typos! Blardy phone!!!

A border collie pup is the most annoying pup for an older dog! But I think it's good for the bc to be bossed about iykwim to begin with, it certainly helped ours to be shown
Go to training, I go with ours. Bc owners tend to stick together :o

Thanks owlady
I do plan on taking him to training. He is already enrolled.

He is a bold pup. If he has a toy he wants he will growl if the older dog comes near. I think that is really quite bold of a 12 week old pup. Or am I wrong? Is it pretty normal?!

I would remove all toys at the moment if they are a trigger for growly behaviour. The pup can have toys with you and interact with you but not if they are becoming an object he can guard or herd (bless him!)

All toy games should be led by you and he will soon learn to leave the older dog alone and interact with you -(which at times will be annoying but in the future will lead to a well bonded dog with you which is what you want)

Any ideas what I can give pup to amuse him if not a toy.

If i don't give him something to chew he constantly goes in behind our stove and chews the logs or if i block that off he takes coal out the coal bucket and chews on that. Or his bowl or if I lift that he tries to chew the knotts out the wooden floor
I freeze carrots, tea towel tied in knotts etc for him to chew but for them to be interesting enough for pup to chew the older dog is keen too. Give them something each and they want what the other has!! Just like the bloody kids.

Tonight the pup was watching me in the kitchen (he is so very food orientated whilst older dog not) and when older dog came into kitchen a scrap broke out at my feet. My leg was in the middle of it and whilst im not hurt I find this incredibly stressful and worry the kids could be in the middle and if not be hurt they would definitely be frightened.

Pup nipped my daughter on nose last week and broke skin. She bent down to stroke him as he was sitting watching me in the kitchen. At the time I thought she had taken him by surprise but now I wonder if it was because he is watching me and thinking there maybe food coming.

I had no problems introducing my great dane puppy to my 7yo collie/terrier when we got her. They were fed together, collie was always the boss and great dane as the 'pup' accepted this. Never a cross word. So my experience is making me feel this is unusual. Am i wrong? Is this common? My older dog (a 7yo lab x) is huge and assertive so not a push over so I am not sure why it isnt clear cut so to speak.