What next with delinquent dog?

[lainiekazan]

I have a golden retriever, aged 10 months, who has always been quite a handful.

He is, however, loving, cuddly, friendly and has 100% recall in garden and obeys a whole range of commands instantly.

BUT - when out and about he is a nightmare. In spite of strenuous training efforts he still pulls on the lead and can even wriggle out of his Dogmatic harness. He is obsessed by other dogs and not even the tastiest snack will divert his attention from a likely-looking playmate. I cannot let him off the lead as I tried once and he was off and refused to come back until captured.

Training classes are a disaster. All the other dogs his age are trotting round obediently going round cones and through gates. Dog has no clue what he's supposed to be doing. Week after week we go and he can't remember (or doesn't want to remember) any of his commands. He just strains and strains to try to get at the other dogs. This week, to my mortification, he suddenly lunged at a passing female dog and starting humping her! I was paralysed for what seemed like hours but must have been half a second before I leapt on him and dragged him off. He is by far the worst dog there and it's so dispiriting.

Should I quit these training classes? How can I make dog into a great walking companion instead of a manic liability?

He is a teenager, you have to keep saying the same things over and over again.

My dog would never do heel work at training classes but 3 years on he walks beautifully on his lead ( unless he sees a cat) . You really need to get a longline or find a safe place to let him off lead I would imagine he is not getting enough stimulating exercise .

I have a long line and use that. I can't envisage anywhere that would be suitable to let him off lead. There will always be other dogs and nowhere is truly secure.

He had a playdate last week (a golden retriever his age) and they played beautifully. Romped round the garden, joshing and leaping. This dog was only visiting though so not a regular companion.

Do you think I need to get him neutered? All advice is not to, but he is starting to get a mad look in his eye around female dogs and has started marking (although he still crouches) and even humped the towel when I was drying him this morning.

If his hormones are causing behaviour problems than I would get him neutered, definitely.

Have you tried a slip lead? Make sure you put it on the right way round and it tightens when he pulls but instantly loosens when he's not.

I had exactly the same problem with my labradoodle who is coming up for a year. He is great at home and follows commands brilliantly even when outdoors, IF there was nobody around! As soon as he saw another dog I was completely irrelevant and didn't matter what treat I put under his nose. Things have improved with a lot of work.

Basically I stopped the puppy classes as he just could not cope with being around so many dogs, I now have one to one sessions. Some things my trainer has taught me which may help:

Play with dog every day for 10 min stretches, basically you want to make yourself his bestest ever play mate, so one of the exercises to try is to put him on a lead, get a toy and get him to play with you (good to do this outside where there are distractions), then as soon as his attention wanders you do a very exaggerated sigh of exasperation and pull him next to you so he cannot get the toy. Stand still and do not look at him. He should look up at you and then you pounce on the toy like it's the most exciting thing ever and he should start to play again, eventually when you make your sound he should want to play again with you so much he instantly looks at you or even jumps at you to get you to play.

Other things to do - hold a treat in your hand, he will go for it, put your hand into a fist until he withdraws and then open your hand again, if he goes for it again do a fist again, until he stays away with your hand open, but he MUST look at you, not the treat. As soon as he does, he gets the treat. You can progress this to moving the treat around and he should remain focused on your eyes.

Chuck treats around when you are walking, he will focus on finding them and get distracted by what you might throw. Labs are very food orientated so use it!

I am sure you are doing these sorts of things and I thought to myself how can playing with my dog help me out on a walk? I was of the mindset that he was great at home and everything was fine until he saw another dog but honestly, it has really helped him to focus on me and improved our bond, which is the key to making you more interesting than other dogs.

So walking today - I have a halti which he doesn't like but I find it much easier to control him than on a harness as he used to pull me around on that. I find now that if I just take the halti with me I often don't put it on, but it is useful to have if you are feeling weary! I have a double clip lead and he walks nicely next to me, achieved by basically taking him out and every time he pulled I turned and changed direction to where I wanted to go, one day we literally went up and down the road and he could not fathom what on earth I was doing but boy, it made him watch me constantly. He still pulls slightly but not as bad.

Other dogs - trainer told me he should not really be allowed to play with other dogs yet as he has no manners and needs to learn them. I have found that if I see another dog approaching I will try and get him in a sit away from the path and give him a treat, actually one thing I found is that treats like chicken and "jackpot" treats don't work as he literally does not chew them but swallows them whole and goes back to his fixation, whereas now i use big crunchy biscuits and it takes him so long to chew them and crunch he focuses on that rather than the other dog. If he drops it I can say oooh where is it and that focuses him even more. It is amazing how this small thing has helped!

Some days are better than others, but whereas I dreaded taking him for walks I see it as a chance to test him out and practice what I have learnt. I don't let him off lead yet, his recall is good but not sure I can trust him around other dogs as yet.

Our next session with the trainer will be for him to actually meet with a dog and interact. He is not aggressive at all, just too bouncy for most dogs.

Hope this helps, it is very slow progress but I have found that the play bonding, getting him to focus and the walking exercises have helped - the first time he ignored another dog because he was focusing on his biscuit I nearly cried with pride!

Also, yes my doodle is neutered, it takes around 3 months for the hormones to disappear but I do think that has helped calm him down too.

Thank you very much, ILikeToClean - your dog sounds v much like mine! I think I may follow your line and quit the classes. They are just so stressful and dog has made no progress at all. He just looks confused and lies down, refusing to move.

I have walked up and down the road ad infinitum, changing direction etc. All fine - unless he sees another dog.

I shall definitely try that game where he is rewarded by looking at me. Although I just can't see that I am better than another dog at the moment.

Yes I found the classes so stressful and would leave nearly in tears because I knew that at home he was so intelligent and could do all the things they wanted him to!

I too thought I would never be better than another dog and I still don't think I am, tbh, but whereas before I would say his name over and over and just get ignored, he started by glancing back at me fleetingly and now does look at me more. It's sloooooow progress but worth a try, and if you notice a tiny difference that spurs you on.

Try crunchy biscuits too - my pockets are overflowing with them every day for fear I may run out!!

fan has a dog obsessed dog so perhaps she could suggest something . I would get him neutered if he were mine . When you say he has a long line do you actually let go of it ? does he have any particularly special toys ? My dog is not food orientated but is ball obsessed so he is not allowed balls at all indoors so being off lead and playing ball is extra special ,I always take 2 balls out so even if he has one I have another to attract his attention IYSWIM.

As floral has rightly pointed out, I have a dog mad dog!

I am a long way off getting over it but he is way better than he was. The best thing I ever did was finding him some doggy mates to play with. Not easy (for me anyway) but I manned up and went to talk to the bunch of regular walkers in our park who let all the dogs off for a romp around. I go up 3 times a week now and he gets a good 30or 40 mins of proper rough chasing bouncing play and loves it.

He is not treat or ball obsessed so we struggle there but I spent aaaages doing watch mes with him on lead and he has his off days but is getting better now. I struggle to let him off unless he is buddied up or in a remote area though as he is a little beggar if he sees someone.

He is 18months now and I have more hope than I did a year ago! I did have him neutered at about 8 mnths but he is a smaller breed.

Fan - yes I have done that with my boy - if ever he has been let off in the park he is fine to play as long as the dog he plays with has good recall with their owners as he just follows the dog so when they come back, he does. At the moment we are doing mainly pavement walks because of the weather so not doing that, and the trainer has specifically suggested I don't let him play until he learns manners . It is good to hear from someone further down the line who is making progress!

It seems there are 2 schools of thought - my trainer's idea of not letting him play just yet because that will increase his obsession, but other people have said the more dogs he plays with the more he will "get it out of his system". Do you think that letting him play has helped his behaviour when you don't want him to play and just want him to walk past other dogs?

I honestly do yes. He is way calmer onlead than he ever was now.

It's exhausting just deciding what course of action to take. I find you can't do anything right. There's always someone wagging their finger and saying you should have done things another way.

One of the trainers yesterday told me off for pulling dog. I should be calmly showing him where I wanted him to go. Duh! Right this minute I could "show" dog where I wanted him to go and he'd happily comply. At dog training he doesn't even see me, let alone feel like trotting meekly round 20 cones.

Interesting - thanks. Maybe the fact that he is older has helped him naturally calm down too.

Our dog (unneutured) was a bloody nightmare until recently, he would only want to play with the other dogs and as soon as I let him off the lead at his agility class he would be off. Hes coming up for 3 now and is still an opinionated little wotsit but hes a lot calmer at agility and much easier to manage. Ours has never really been a humper although he does mark everything (outside the house)

It is possible age is helping but at this stage is calmer rather than calm

But he can pass another dog now without going batshit mental and trying to hurl his whole body at them. I didn't go up to meet the gang this morning as it was slinging it down and there is often noone there in bad weather. He reverted to his old ways of hunkering to the floor and refusing to move as he knew there was a dog behind.

Another little BT (identical to mine!) has joined our little group and we often walk back together and they walk lovely together despite been as similar in temprement as they are in looks.

I feel I've been transported back to infant school days with me waiting for the dcs and no one talking to me. Ditto bloody book groups: "Oh, sorreeeee, we're all friends , no spaces..."

How the hell do you break into a dog group?! I've stood around the rec hissing at dog to put on his most appealing face but so far we've tromped round by ourselves. Other golden retriever owners seem to be rather snooty and stalk past with perfectly-behaved and pristine examples of the breed whilst I'm manhandling a disgustingly muddy hairy tail-wagging beast.

I have got 2 Goldens, and have had GR's for over 30 years. Don't give up! Goldies stay "puppies" for a long time, even when they look all grown up. The boys especially can be big and boisterous and need a lot of exercise.....a tired dog is usually a good dog IME.
Is there no-where you can take him for off lead running? Or swimming, most love retrieving things from water!

I have found a halti good for a really pully dog, they don't like it at first so you have to introduce it with lots of treats and rewards.

It sounds like he is finding the class boring...lots of heel work, walking round and round? You could try a diff class, perhaps do some agility training which would give him more to think about.

If you were near me you could join up with me...my Oldie Goldie would teach him some manners! [She has Goldie Pup anyway!]
I don't know how you break into established groups, I'm not good at it! But if you could find some one with an active friendly dog he could play with, perhaps older I think that would help. It would certainly tire him out more.

I don't know how other Goldie owner keep them clean, atm mine are sort of 2 tone gold and mud coloured, steaming gently in a heap after morning walk!

Don't beat yourself up - some dogs are harder to motivate than others - some owners get ready made dogs and they are rubbish handlers. You will be a brill handler learning how to motivate your guy!

Generally a dog that is high drive, interested etc is a great dog to have - you do need to find out what can motivate to reward them and also will need to practise working with distractions. However you will then have a fab great intelligent dog.

Your training class does not sound like the right one for you and your dog so may be worth looking at another group where you do get better advice and support

I have a Goldie too and I'm definitely not snooty and my boy is definitely not pristine . He's a lot older so fairly sedate but still has his mad moments and his recall isn't great.

What area are you in OP? Just say general area like NW, SE if you don't want to be specific.

I'm in SE.

Dog is being soooo good atm. Workmen here and after saying hello (and he never jumps up [halo emoticon] ) he has just mooched off.

He reserves his absolute worst behaviour for training classes.

Mine does jump up...at speed and preferably with mud!

Breaking into dog group was as easy as just having the guts to walk over to half a dozen peopl e stood with their dogs and say hello, chat for 10 minutes and just stalk them after that Dead subtle I am! Yorkshire folk do tend to take pity on a struggling loser though when dealing with wayward mutts! All jokes aside though, they are 'dog' folk though so really helpful.

I have met loads of people I chat to regularly in my local park but as I say, we are strange round here anr tend to chat to random strangers as though we know them!

Sadly I'm in the stand-offish south.

Surveyor came today and his wife was looking for a walking partner with their mad dog. I actually have seen her out and about so perhaps I shall pluck up courage to speak to her... [afraid of rebuff emoticon]

I'm in the SE ( Kent) and tbh I talk to quite a few walkers but personally don't get that involved with other owners because my dog is anti social . You need to just go to the local field or park and strike up a conversation about how much mud there is , most people are happy to chat if you initiate the conversation . I'm a southerner but will chat to anyone .

My dog is exactly the same tbh. She behaves like she has had a couple of cans of red bull in the back of the car on the way to training. I feel though if I don't persevere with the socialization aspect of training class, it will take longer for an improvement in this.
I don't really know the retriever breed very well. But I find with my collie as long as you occupy her mind so she has to concentrates does actually focus, even though she thinks she is the most popular dog in the universe and the whole class is there to see her.
Do you take high quality treat z with you? Sliced hot dog sausage, cheese etc