Recall and whistles

[sebastianthesingingaubergine]

Hello wise ones.

I am thinking of getting a whistle in an attempt to improve the pups recall. She is 7.5 months. Her recall has always been pretty good actually, she will be with me in an instant at home, and was good when we were out and about, but she is starting to ignore me until she feels like coming back. She is getting braver, and where-as before she has stuck with me, she is instantly off and skirting the woods in a spaniel like way! All I can see is a black flash off at lightning speed in the distance. If she sees a dog/person before me she is off, and won't come back until she has played. She is a friendly thing, and does just want to play, but obviously this is no good if the other people/dogs don't want a crazy pup jumping all around them.
If I see them before her I get a lead on which is fine, if she has nothing to distract her, she will recall fine.

I'm aware I need to up her training, but can't find anywhere to go locally that I can get to without at a time that suits me. I'm thinking of trying whistle training, so is it easy to learn by myself, and is it something that might work?!

I'm starting to lose confidence letting her off at all, but when she was younger and less brave she was so good! I prided myself on her recall then:)

Whistle training is easier than most people think. Basically you just need to create a conditioned response to the sound of the whistle, which you do by blowing the whistle while feeding them something delicious. You start by blowing the whistle at feed times, just as they start to eat and after a few days of that start blowing it and walking backwards away from them with the food, so they get the idea that the whistle means to 'come to me for food'. Then you gradually increase the distance, start using the whistle in a different room to call the dog for food, then the garden etc. Using extra tasty chunks of something they love, like fresh cooked chicken or liver cake is a great way of making it extra reinforcing.

I really rate Pippa Mattingson's book, Total Recall for a nice, simple, easy to follow routine for whistle training.

Pip also had a great recall up until he hit 6 months and started getting confident enough to put some more distance between me and him in the park and get distracted by interesting smells etc. My problem with him is that, being fearful of other dogs, he is likely to bolt and possibly run towards a road, rather than approaching other dog-walkers.

He was actually whistle-trained, but I've stopped using it and gone back to basics with him, as he became less reliable as he gained confidence in the park and that coincided with me being ill and letting his training schedule slide a bit. I don't want to use it until I'm sure he's going to respond, because I don't want to undermine it's effectiveness long-term.

Thanks Moose.

Yes I think I have gotten a bit blase with her training too. I really need to up the ante a bit again. I have been lead walking her in the afternoons around the lanes to try and get her lead walking up to scratch and hopefully listening to me a little more again. I'm aware we are heading up to the teenage phase too, and am worried things are only going to get worse. I so want her to be a beautifully trained dog!

Thanks for the book rec, I'll have a look at that:)

By the way she looks gorgeous in her Meggie Moo collar, I'll have to try and get a pic up.

Teenage phase is well and truly kicking in here, Pip will be 7 months old on New Years Day and is already doing that "Do I really have to do what you say?" hesitation thing.

I know we just have to keep our resolve, go back to basics and be consistent, but it's so frustrating (not to mention embarrassing in the park) when your previously well behaved dog suddenly forgets everything they've learned and decides the rules no longer apply to them.

Doesn't happen with all dogs though - so you may be lucky. I've managed to avoid it with several of mine, but Pip seems determined to make me suffer!

Bet she does look lovely in her new collar - she looks so scrunchable on your profile pics.

I'm whistle training my 18 week old pup, and as well as the food rewards , I also play a lot of hide and seek around the house with it as well. You want it really ingrained before you start using it out and about.

If she ignores you without a whistle, she isn't going to magically pay attention just because you start blowing one at her.

She is ignoring you because you are allowing her to. The same thing will happen if you use a whistle, trumpet, claxon, siren, whatever.

By all means start training recall using a whistle - but don't expect the whistle bit to be a magic cure all. The only thing that will cure her ignoring you is to remind her she can't. Train her. She isn't trained if she doesn't have a reliable recall.

Go to her if the first recall fails - and don't keep repeating the recall command. Get close enough so you KNOW she will listen - be that 2 yards or 200, call her in and make sure she comes. Either that or go back to a long line and square bash with her every day for 5 minutes. That'll help a lot.

If she ignores you without a whistle, she isn't going to magically pay attention just because you start blowing one at her.

I'm well aware of that.

I'm thinking of using one because she goes she is starting to skirt the woods and go so far from me. If I can have a 'stop' signal to prevent her going so far, and something she can actually hear should she get to such a distance this would help.

If I had her on a long line she would be with me in a second. She is very food orientated luckily. Yes I agree she is ignoring me when she is distracted, any suggestions on how I can practise recall when she is distracted? Her recall in the garden is 100%, it is when she has other more interesting things to do that she is now ignoring me. Being out and about and off the lead is entirely different to her being on her long line. Should I just go back to long lining again for a while do you think? (Playing with other dogs is the time she most definitely ignores me until she feels like it.)

Go to her if the first recall fails Yep, I can start to do this. If I can see her! I have to keep calling when she has disappeared. She does come back, but it can be a few minutes sometimes. I really need to find a way to keep her with me when she is off lead:) Any ideas?

Thanks for your advice Daisydotandgertie.

Is she a spaniel? Sounds llke she might be.

I used to recall every few minutes when DDog was young. And treated every time before sending him off to play again. I still do it a few times in a walk, so he knows he isn't just recalled at the end for the car or lead.

But he's ball mad now so happily obeys my every word.

Yes, I suppose I used to recall her all the time when she was a bit younger, I've probably stopped doing that so much.

She doesn't know what she is Daisy! A rescue, some people think Spaniel (she does have it in her face I think, and yes her walk antics make me thinks so too!) Others think there is lurcher in there somewhere, because of her lanky legs, others say she looks like a small Flat Coat.

Watching with interest as have very similar problem with my 18-month rescue. Recall is 100% in house and garden (be it calling or whistle). We live very rurally, miles of orchards and farmland, and lots of rabbits. Dog's 'safe' distance soon extended such that he will happily roam 3/4 fields away from me (i.e. he is a blur in the distance). No livestock, no people, no dogs, no roads so it's not a problem per se, but he will sometimes be away out of sight for up to 5 mins without him 'checking in'! He just loves running really fast, so covers a great deal of distance very quickly. So I'm clearly not the one to give you any advice (I am more of a cautionary tale in the event you can't get this sorted!), but I will share some observations/research.

1. My dog (who is the most greedy food orientated creature known at home) will simply swing by me even if I'm holding out a piece of hot chicken, dripping with juices, if he 'is not ready' to rejoin. So it's not always a case of making sure the dog is within 'recall' distance, and have a high-value treat, for it to work

2. The main advice I took from my training classes is only to recall your dog (with your new whistle signal) when you would bet £10 that it will works. At other times, when needed, use your old recall signal, and then switch to your new recall signal when that £10 seems guaranteed. This is to avoid 'de-sensitising' him to the recall signal through habitualising him to ignore it.

3. My dog is actually more likely to return to me when I don't recall, i.e. if he can hear that I'm still there, he doesn't need to bother checking in. If I am silent (maybe he thinks I have gone home?) he is more likely to come and find me. When I'm with my DS (who chatters and shouts all the time, which dog can presumably hear) dog stays away for a long time! For this reason, trainers suggest you should change direction frequently and hide from your dog as part of your recall training.

4. My dog seems to have a preferred length of walk - after 20 mins of off-lead running he will come and find me (whether I recall or not) exhausted and ready to go home.

5. My dog's recall is perfect (and his safe distance an appropriate 10 metres or so) in new places where he has not been before or has not been recently, it is only in his 'safe' home territory that he roams for miles and ignores recall.

So, as I said, sadly no advice to give, but just some observations that may help you formulate a plan to tackle this while she is still young. Your dog sounds very much like mine (both working breeds, both started off okay but recall got worse and safe distance greater as confidence grew) and the phrase 'skirting the woods' was very resonant - my dog loves running along perimeters of fields, woods etc.

Good luck - I hope you manage to nip it in the bud so you don't end up like me!

Thanks Neeps, it is nice to know that there is someone in the boat with me!

They do sound very alike. Our hunting ground is yards from the house and is a huge woodland. We can go for miles, and my walks are usually only half an hour as she covers five times the ground that I do. She is also very speedy, and loves the wind in her hair! My daughter is 3, and Foghorn Leghorn is her nickname so I've no doubt the dog generally knows where we are:) By the same token, it does make 'going to her' instead of just calling a bit difficult, as dd walks at slug like speed, and it would be a case of following the dog and leaving daughter - cue meltdown I expect! I haven't tried hiding from her before (the dog that is) but the other day she must have lost me, as I saw her appear out of the bushes behind me up the path and instantly head for home - until I called and she found me.

Thanks for the advice, I'm not sure a plan is formulated yet, but I will keep you updated if I find something revolutionary:)