Advice needed - Border Collie randomly charging at other dogs

[Rassy]

Hi - We acquired a 5 year old Border Collie in February (one previous elderly owner who had tragically been diagnosed with terminal cancer). My friend had also walked this dog since it was 18 months old (with her own dog) so she was well known to us all. She is completely lovely in nature, loves humans but is not sociable with other dogs (unless they are well known to her). She always used to ignore/take a wide berth round other dogs but since October she has randomly 'charged' at other dogs occasionally. There is no pattern to it - the other dogs involved don't appear to have been aggressive to her! She seemed to be much better recently (I had been putting her on her lead whenever I saw another dog) and had been able to let her walk past/divert round other dogs while not on a lead. However this morning she charged at another dog on our morning walk! The only thing that I can think of, is that my friend (who had walked her since she was 18 months old) tragically lost her dog (the two dogs had a close companionship) and my dog's behaviour changed after my friend's dog's death. She also doesn't behave like this for my husband! Advice needed please before there is a major incident!

Try Sarah Jenkins www.mayfieldsfarm.co.uk/ She carries a magic wand

Do not let her off the lead around other dogs dont put them at risk of harm as this may escalate and contact a good behaviouralist this could be due to a number of reasons and it sounds serious fear aggression etc no one here will be able to help you unless they can see the dog so I would say she has to be seen by a professional.

One of our oldies used to charge at other dogs. We started making games more important when we saw other dogs around, so that their presence meant games for him and the other dogs withered into insignificance. Sarah Jenkins is brilliant though.

Having looked at that website, I wouldn't recommend them as their methods are based on outdated and disproven pack theory. OP is better off contacting someone from the APDT or APBC.

I thought the same Lilcamper, just followed the links on their website to their 'behaviour' page and it's all dominance/pack-theory related.

OP please find a qualified behaviourist who's a member of the Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors. You need someone who is suitably experienced and employs only positive training methods to help you unpick your dog's behaviour and come up with a plan for you to work with them on improving it.

We went through APBC for one of our dogs. The behaviourists we met were not worth it and one of them was fully aware that his advice was, under the circumstances, completely useless. If the dog's life is at stake and getting the problem sorted really really matters, I will do what it takes. It was awful living with a dog who was effectively completely out of control. Now he behaves like a normal dog and is fab.

Easy, if you had a problem with an APBC behaviourist you need to take it up with them not come on here and recommend someone who uses outdated and disproven methods.

Agree, if an APBC registered behaviourist was hopeless, they should be reported to the APBC.

I'm glad your dog is ok, but using dominance and pack theory on most dogs, especially those with aggression is asking for trouble, this isn't news - it's well researched and documented.

I don't use dominance or pack theory. The APBC has all sorts of people on its books and there are lots of different ideas floating about. It depends very much on what the problem is to what approach you need to take to make life better. At no point would I or have I ever taken or used advice that involved pain or cruelty.

The APBC has formally qualified people that use science based methods on their books.

You may not use pain or cruelty but even rank reduction techniques are at best ridiculous.

I don't use those either.

Are you the person you recommended? Seriously love, bone up on learning theory, get up to date and your dogs will thank you for it.

There's someone here with a PhD in canine behaviour. As I said, there are lots of different theories about dog training and behaviour. At last we have the luxury of keeping animals as pets rather than simply working animals, and at last we are taking a closer look at the other species we share our planet with. I watch and learn. Please don't be so dogmatic.

Konrad Most was considered a canine behaviour expert in his time. It doesn't mean his methods were right, just that, based on the knowledge available at the time he was highly experienced. Things change, scientific knowledge and our understanding of other species does indeed move on and develo as research takes place and we learn more.

No-one is accusing you of using cruel methods on your dogs. I have no idea how you train and am therefore not qualified to make that judgement. For my part, I am just concerned that the OP, whose dog has an issue with aggression of some sort, is being directed to a behaviourist who describes pack theory and mentions dominance on their website:

"The language of the dog has evolved from wolf pack behaviour. Understanding the pack hierarchy will assist you to encourage positive behaviour between dogs and humans in the home.

The basis of this technique is understanding and utilising the language of the dog as a pack animal, enabling us to communicate with our dogs through body language."

The idea that domesticated dog behaviour is based on wolf pack behaviour has been scientifically disproven. Domestic dogs do not live or act as packs, nor do they consider humans part of their packs or create the kind of hierarchical pack structure believed (once - as this too is now in question) to exist in wolf packs. Therefore utilising methods based on pack theory and dominance hierarchy is an absolute nonsense.

I have to say the phrase "Through pressure and release you demonstrate to the dog that you are the 'Alpha' or 'Leader' and to be trusted and followed." is something that worries me - a lot. That sounds awfully like traditional punitive dog training, which however you look at it is cruel, usually, both physically and psychologically.

There's a world of difference between being dogmatic and choosing to follow only, sound scientific research that proves that we do not need to force dogs to submit to us in order to live peacefully with them in our society.

I'm sorry to have caused such a fuss. Yes, I thought it was common knowledge that pack theory and dominance etc was nonsense, and stuff about letting dogs onto furniture etc and eating before you is simply silly.

Many pet dogs run into problems when they're left to their own initiative and I think it's our responsibility to engage with our animals so they don't think they need to rule the world, or the household.

I think there are methods of training which can be very effective, but like a bitless bridle for a horse, to be used very, very carefully.

In the broader scheme of things, it is the blip of an eye ago that Barbara Woodhouse was training a generation of dog owners. I don't think you need to bully or violate an animal. Ever.

I hope OP gets suitable help. Sorry again for jumping the gun. The dog we took to Sarah would be long gone without her help. He changed from a dog who barely recognised our existence to one who wants to be with us.

I agree, an awful lot of pet dog problems are down to boredom and lack of direction. The more we train them, the better we bond, the keener they are to please and then you have a positive cycle of behaviour, as opposed to the negative one that can come from bad behaviour, negative attention, more bad behaviour/escalation etc.

I'm glad your dog was able to be helped, but from what you've said it's more down to your love, care and attention than any outdated methods she may have used on him. Simply engaging, handling and training him will have increased your bond immeasurably. Calm, kind consistency will be what taught him to trust and won him over in the end - I strongly suspect that it was you, not she that helped him to change.