At the end of my tether. I can't do this anymore.

[bubbawubba]

I have a 16 yo JRT bitch. In the summer she was diagnosed with a heart murmur but no action was taken as she was otherwise extremely fit and healthy and asymptomatic. For the last 2 months she has been faecally incontinent with occasional urinary incontinence. We have reached a point where we are coming down each morning to diarrhoea type stool which smells extremely offensive. We have sought the opinion of 3 different vets who all said that the incontinence is just a feature of old age and one put her on AB's which made no difference. She had an abdominal US which showed nothing remarkable. She has been put on a dried specialist food which have made the stools firmer but she still has no control over her bowels. We have tried putting paper down, putting her in nappies at night (she just rips them off) getting up in the night to let her out - all to no avail - we are still having to clean up every morning. This morning i came down to an enormous amount of semi runny poo over the sofa. I cant cope with it anymore. Our house permanently smells - my friend commented on it the other day - and im worried about the hygiene factor with a 3.5 yo running around. The thing is, i feel totally unjustified in having her pts because she is so full of life and loves eating, going for a walk etc but this is starting to affect the family so detrimentally that its starting to affect my mental health. The house never feels clean, we have had to have 2 rugs and the stairs professionally cleaned and I'm afraid to say im starting to dislike her very much even though its not her fault. What can i do? Any ideas?

Can you restrict her to a room with hard flooring?

The ground floor is open plan snakey we tried a cage but she howled so much we had to let her out.

It sounds as though you have tried everything to live with it, but I would be concerned about her quality of life now. We had a border terrier who developed urinary incontinence at 14, and our vet kindly told us we would struggle to live with it, and that our dog would be distressed by it. We had him pts, and while it was a hard decision, I feel it was better for everyone.
I hope you find an answer.

Would dog nappies be an option overnight?

Oh fab that's so sad. Pingu, we tried nappies but she ripped them off. The thing is, i don't feel she is distressed when it happens. She still runs to greet us in the morning with a waggy tail and acts like nothing has happened. If she was distressed i think having her pts would still be gut wrenching but justifiable because she was suffering as well as us but as it stands it us who are suffering and not her iyswim.

Could you have another go with the cage, but build up to it with a short programme of cage training, perhaps with the help of a professional dog trainer if that might help?

And perhaps if the cage was in a different place -- even on top of the sofa if that is where she is used to sleeping?

Clutching at straws a bit but I do feel for you. If she is still full of life, putting her to sleep is a terribly hard decision. I wouldn't feel judgemental towards you if you did have her PTS, since you have to consider your needs, and also the effects of your unhappiness on the dog I suppose. But it sounds like you perhaps haven't quite reached the stage where that is the decision that you feel is right.

Oh bubbawubba this is so hard for you and a huge thing you have to face. I am sorry.

My advice, hard though it is to follow given all the poo and how you are feeling, is for you to try again and again with the cage.

All the time I was reading your post, I kept thinking, what would I give to have just one more day! This year I lost my older/middle-aged dog to a very aggressive cancer.
I held off to the very last minute to pts (although for anyone that is worrying that I might have allowed my dog to suffer, we saw the vet daily, so that things wouldn't stretch into the 'suffering' zone).

If there had been one more day of my dog being full of life, loving food, and going for a walk; then we would have had one more day. What would I have given to have had one more day!

So if your heart (and your dog's enjoyment of life) tells you it's not yet time to pts, then don't pts. This is still the dog you love (although no one could blame you for not liking her too much right now ). Do the cage. Put a playpen round the cage, so she can also be in there for a bit when you are about and it can be associated with 'nice' day time stuff. Give treats in the playpen and cage. Spend time having a doze near the cage while your dog is in it. She will get used to it. Persevere.

Best of luck!

Adish your post made me cry! I think i'll keep trying the cage as you and Butthere suggested.

Bubba - I am in exactly the same position with a 13 year old labrador.

She is only (ha!) faecally incontinent and most mornings there is trouble to clear up. She has also pooed in the car a number of times, and in her bed too. She doesn't seem to know it's coming, but is a little aware of it someway through.

She is currently on steroids to ensure the poo is firm - which is far, far easier to deal with than the runs.

Hers is apparently caused by a tumour, but I will not be investigating where.

Like your dog, she is enjoying walks and food but is also getting very tangled back legs too. She definitely has neurological problems and I am aware that her back legs aren't working as they should.

It is inevitable she will need to be pts, but like you, I can't reconcile incontinence with the decision. Probably no help at all, but you're not the only one with the problem!

Even though you are open plan is there a smallish area you could fence off with a baby gate/gates ie a downstairs wc ?,with room to put the dogs bed in etc.

Is she doing it in her sleep or cant' go longer than say 3-4 hours without going to the toilet?

When she goes to the toilet in the morning can you put a training pad underneath her wee stream to get the smell on, and then at night, put that training pad on a corner of her room (with a few more) so that if she needs to go she will go to the training pad area? Wont work if she does it in her sleep. If she wakes up to go to the toilet - then you could possibly try setting the alarm every 2 hours to try her outside - make a note of when she does go to the toilet, so that you can get into a routine of waking up at 3am and letting her out?

Can you temporarily pull up a carpet and put down cheap carpet tiles or something for the next year?

I didn't mean to make you cry, bubba, sorry. If I was nearby I would come and scrub your sofa for you !

I'm so glad you're going to keep trying with the cage (I had already guessed you would, you sound like someone who really cares and is really trying).

Best of luck and let us all know how it's going.

This must be heartbreaking for you bubba and it's clear you really care for your dog, but as well as considering your dog's quality of life you have to consider your own.

Agree that trying to fence off a part of the house is a good idea and I would also talk to the vet to see if she can be given something to firm up her stool. But ultimately if, as you say, you feel the situation is beginning to affect your mental health no-one is going to judge you if you decided to have her pts.

It's a horrible position to be in. Wish you well.

i started to add to this last night, but ended in tears as your old JRT sounds just like my old JRT girl who died at home in september aged 15 1/2
My old girl was urinary incontinent, and now shes no longer around I realise she did make my house smell a bit but like Adish I'd clear up all the poo in the world and have a smelly house just to have her waddling about here again. but everyones different and it must be difficult if its difficult to confine her to one part of the house.
I'd have a go at confining her in some way, i'm sure she will be fine with the cage once she gets used to it, good luck and cherish the time you have with your old girl, its so precious even when they are old and have problems xx

Thanks everyone. daisydot its just so dreadful isn't it. Theres some good ideas here, I'll keep you posted on how it goes. Theres a part of me which feels that it is so fundamentally wrong to kill a dog that is essentially well and enjoying life. She loves her food and is still able to beg by going on her haunches! I'm going to see how we go anyway. Thanks again.

I feel for you, our GSD was fecaly incontinent for a year before he died and it was not easy.

What have the vets tried? I would try different foods, e.g. Hills Science Plan for Gastro problems or the Allergy free one, or alternatively if you cook for her try an exclusion diet. There is a good chance that a specific thing is upseting her tummy and by excluding it you may have a solution.

As for the urinary incontinence have you tried any medication? Incurine works very well for hormone related incontinence and Propalin helps with sphincter weakness incontinence. You may have to try both to see which works best.