Improving recall. Any ideas?

[diplodocus]

We've had a rescue dog for about 2 months and she's now around 6-7 months old. We've been using treats to teach recall and she certainly has the idea but she's by no means reliable. She's got lots of energy and loves being off lead but at the moment we're very limited in where this can be. She tends to start off fine on a walk (I do regular recalls along the way) and then it tails off towards the end and it takes longer and longer for her to come back. It's also still hopeless if there's something more interesting (i.e. another dog). Can anyone give any hints of how to improve things or suggest a book that doesn't assume you're starting with an 8 week old puppy? We use a type of treat she loves, but compared to how exciting the rest of the world is to her it's often not enough to tempt her.

Cheese and a really soggy tennis ball was the key to sorting my dog's recall, nothing was more exciting than being called and getting a block of cheddar and a game of tugging the tennis ball. Took us ages to crack though, she's a greyhound/dobie/something else! mutt and has a lot of chase instincts and selective deafness. We had to find out what to do to make us the most exciting thing to investigate, and not give up until she came back and then give her just as much fuss and praise if she did it in 5 seconds or if it took 5 minutes.
Whilst her recall is not perfect you'd be best keeping her on a really long lead instead of letting her off, unless you can let her run in a fully enclosed space with no other people/dogs.
Best of luck.

Thanks - will try a selection of toys to make myself more interesting. And try varying the treats. A friend suggested I use a whistle as this prevents any irritation / anxiety entering your voice, which I think is also probably an idea. WE do have her on a long line most of the time, and tend to leave it on even when she's "free" so we have som4ething to grab but it can all get a bit tangled (nearly brought down a family of four yesterday!).

Well, teaching an older dog is not really any different to teaching a puppy, inasmuch as you have to be very very methodical about it.

The mistake most people make is to get a good recall in the house/garden and in low distraction situations on walks and then assume the dog "knows" the recall in all situations.

The difference between teaching puppies and older dogs is usually that with the older dog, the cue has been "poisoned" in the sense that it doesn't see the cue as "come NOW whatever you're doing" because that cue hasn't been taught methodically enough, generalised and proofed.

If I were you I'd teach it from scratch, using a different cue (a whistle is good - it's ear catching and always sounds the same no matter what), start in a low distraction environment (house) then working up to slightly higher, then low distraction outside, then slightly higher etc, always setting the dog up to succeed and NEVER using the special recall signal unless you'd bet a hundred quid he will respond!

In between, you can use the old recall cue. So if you're not willing to bet that money, use the old cue, then if he DOES come back, as he's running to you then use the new one and feed something special. Make the new one irresistible. Use steak if you have to. Save up bacon rinds, bits of roast chicken etc. What you're aiming for is a dog who ultimately always comes back when he hears the special cue - because that's what he's always done. He does it without thinking. Like a soldier who automatically ducks when he hears a bang. A conditioned response.

If you've already tried a whistle and poisoned it, try a different type/tone.

Ah yes, you do have to be careful. I ended up with a toddler and a hawthorn bush tangled in the long line on one particularly taxing day
I've only had a couple of dogs, but both times recall was the hardest nut to crack. I think I'm just not as naturally exciting as a half decomposed rabbit, or a really muddy river bank where cows have been pooing [sigh]
That whistle idea does sound good!

Thanks both - Monkey's - like your idea with the whistle - haven't used one yet so it's "clean".

Brilliant!

Also, wherever possible, use "functional rewards" too - ie something he wanted to do anyway.

Eg - if he's playing with another dog and you call him away, reward with food and then release him again to resume the game with his pal. He then gets a double whammy - chicken AND the reward of going off to play again! Useful for the dog who weighs it up and is all "Nah - playing with this dog is better than chicken right now".

We use a whistle (the gundog ones as you can get several that sound exactly the same) and high value treats with our lurcher. As it happens, Lidl chorizo really floats his boat and is cheaper than dog treats.

We did as Monkeys describes, starting in the house, then in a quiet area, then with more going on etc. And I keep reinforcing in the quiet areas.

When we go out somewhere exciting, I do treat him before he goes off lead to show him whats on offer which seems to add to the few thoughts in his mind that mum has lovely stuff in her pocket.

We got him at 6 months old as a rescue, and its just a few weeks off a year that we've had him now - and at the weekend he was running free up on the hills and recalling away from other dogs and from totally out of sight. And I've trained DS to recall to the whistle too which is very useful in that enviroment. He likes chorizo too.

At this stage, feeding from a bowl is a huge waste of training opportunities and I don't just mean recall. Measure out the days ration and keep it for training. Rather than plonking a bowl down, use some for practising sit/down/anything while you wait for the kettle to boil or what have you. Have some in your pocket at all times so you can catch him doing stuff you like and reinforce it.

Avoids dog being too full to be bothered working for food and also helps to create a bond.

.....obv if you feed wet stuff rather than kibble ignore above or switch to kibble!

Thanks monkey - we should do this more often with the food (we do feed kibble!). Wow, CMOT, impressed with your dogs behaviour, and also his sophistication in liking Chorizo. I'd forgotten our old dog when I was growing up would sell his soul for salami. Good to hear of such good results with a slightly older rescue dog like ours. We've come across a bit of "well what do you expect with a rescue dog..." which isn't very helpful.

I think it works as a) its stinky and luvverly and b) something he doesn't get at any other time so its really special.
He'd like cheese (trainer recommended Primula as you can squeeze straight out of the tube), but I don't like the effect on his tum

We do do recall every day though and its been a slog to get there with other dogs around. He gets all his food in his bowl (he was underfed before we got him and is anxious about food, so needs the comfort of two meals), but he has to do something for it - sit or lie down as asked, then wait till invited to eat

Chorizo is my pup's ultimate treat as well. I buy it ready cubed from Tescos. We also use primula spread and home made liver cake and his jackpot rewards are a whole pack of Fish4dogs salmon mousse or a huge chunk of freshly cooked, still warm meat. Basic training treats come out of his kibble allowance, which I weigh out into bags weekly so I can easily keep track. We don't need to worry about deducting other treats from his intake, as he's a skinny boy who has a tendency to lose, rather than gain weight.

If you do want an easy step by step guide to whistle training, I highly recommend Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson. It has both puppy and adult programmes and is very easy to follow.

I'm finding it hard too and also in awe at people like Cmot. I had no experience with dogs before getting the ewok she was nervous of other dogs when she first met them at puppy class and even now she's almost a year but is in the 0-6m agility and play class cos when she went to the age appropriate one she hid under chairs but now she's happy as Larry playing with the littlies

Because she can be fearful I am worried that she'll bite off more than she can chew and approach an aggressive dog on a walk, I had her offlead last week and kept an eye out for other dogs but missed one far away she didn't and charged off longline attached with me trying to run behind through mud shouting after her but with her taking no noticed, luckily the man was cool but that's something else I find difficult to understand so many people out walking their dogs show no signs that they're happy for my dog to interact with theirs usually my dogs on its hind legs gagging to greet and play but mostly the other dog barks at her (usually a bundle of fluff type dog round my way) and gets pulled away by their owner

I also find it difficult living in suburbia. if I find a field she can have a good run with just me but if I allowed her to see other dogs and chase after them it scares me witless that she prob only has to run 20-30 secs full pelt and shed be on a very busy road

I'm not giving up though I just have to accept mine and hers limitations and that it's not going to happen overnight but so what as long as I do my best

Its much easier to practice when you live rurally tbh - we have 4 acres of community green space right in front of the house which is closed off on 3 1/2 sides, access to an indoor riding school (cmotdogs fave place in the universe to run madly), and lots of other safe space.
But hes still a silly bouncy object in a world of well trained gun dogs, so can be rather shown up. He does retrieve, but only after running round in a victory lap . A loooong way to go!

CMOT - we are in the middle of an estate but there are 3 big fields within a few minutes walking distance, another big enclosed one 2 mins drive away and a country park a 5 min drive away. I agree its a lot easier depending on where you live!

Thanks all. Love the idea of a victory lap after retrieving! We're in gun dog central too which makes poor Diplomutt look even more disreputable. At least we have quite a few safe places for letting her off though. Will be getting a selection of new delicacies today in the hope of renewing enthusiasm! Will be a bit [hmmm] though if, as is likely, the dog has more sophisticated taste than the DCs, who wouldn't be seen dead with a bit of Chorizo. Thanks for the book recommendation Moose - will take a look.

So I read this thread and some old recall ones and had training treats for "come back" and ham for returning to whistle and my longline walk to the best field I have and as I got there there was a countrified looking man with two springer I think who were trained to the hilt and only 20m behind I fuckety fucked the rest of the way as I was gutted, if he was going to the same field I'd never be able to let the ewok off shed run straight to them at the min, but then he disappeared so we made a start and a few mins in he appeared again bugger but then bless him I think he saw me and went off in the other direction to the other part of the field letting me do loads of training.

It really is a minefield this recall training lark but when you manage and it goes well (I swear the ewok smiles at me when she has a good run!) it all seems worth it

Well done Notonaschoolnight - a bit everyday and you'll get there.

What worked when my dogs were young was to never walk in a straight forward fashion. So instead of say walking around the perimeter of a field you start off and then for no apparent reason turn left or back on yourself and then carry on but keep changing direction. Your dog learns that they have to keep an eye on you or you'll disappear so they keep close.

Notonaschoolnight, my Wheaten girl was a nightmare for running off when younger. She just had to say hello to every single human being she saw. Lots of training, just like you are doing now and she was good as gold eventually, in fact the steadiest dog I've ever owned and passed her Gold Good Citizen award no trouble at all.

Keep it up, as CMOT said you will get there.

Thank you all lol moose that's exactly what I'm going through with her when people approach I keep a firmer grip and people assume she's aggressive I have to say "sorry she's just really really friendly"?!!

I do think it's a Wheaten thing, they just love people so much and when they're pups that involves sprouting springs from all four paws whenever someone approaches. Course it doesn't help that they're so blooming cute that so many people actually encourage them ...