New Puppy Mummies, Part 3

[DharmaLovesDraco]

New thread, because quite frankly I can't do without you all :)

Welcome bluebird. To be honest it's not a bad thing that you had to leave her and come back 20 minutes later, especially as she went to sleep, as it means she'll get used to you going out, knowing that you'll always come back. She's young enough to adapt and you're right, she will probably create then settle at first and eventually give up the creating, iyswim.

I wish I'd been less sensitive to Pip when we first brought him home and my neighbours were on holiday, but because he was ill I was worried about leaving him and we are still having problems leaving him even now at 6 months. Didn't help that he was 10 weeks when we got him and had never spent a second away from his foster family.

Ironically I also have a dread of Separation Anxiety, having been through it with my older dog when Oldgirl passed earlier this year. He's still not great, but after a few months of hard work, can be left for a couple of hours. I should have been firm and left Pip more when he was tiny, as we're definitely living to regret it now.

Oh - and we neeeeed photos! We love puppy pics on this thread.

I am waiting for the teenage phase to kick in, at 13 months we haven't really had one yet for our Springer!!

I am looking for a bit of advise please re adding an additional dog to the household. It's more the practicalities really.

We are seeing a breeder of working Cocker's on Saturday, after having been interviewed for nearly an hour on Saturday as the breeder had so much interest in the litter (good reputation). They have a litter just born and only a couple of puppies that were not already pre-booked before the mating.

Luckily, we passed the interview so we are able to have a dog, if we pass muster on Saturday (but the dog will not be given to anyone else in the meantime).

-How do folk manage crating the puppy and not the older dog, Ddog was never a chewer and out of his crate by 6 months? We slept downstairs initially with our first, but wonder if the presence of another dog will be adequate, although more than happy to do again.
-Training? I assume separately? Our Springer has just done his KC Gold but we have been asked if he is able to be used as an 'example' dog and DH is going to have some gundog lessons, is very much ongoing for him too.

• walks pre injection? Will take puppy as much as possible for socialisation reasons but Ddog gets 2.5 hours exercise a day, so pup will need to be left? Will reduce the exercise for a while until puppy able to do similar.

I will think of more but thank you in advance

I haven't had too much teenage trouble with my dogs before. Lurcherboy got a bit barky in the park and did a bit of worktop surfing, but other that that he was fine.

I have always crated the pup and not the adult and it's never been an issue. I think it's important both for the pup to have a safe space to retreat to and also for you to have somewhere secure to put the pup to give the adult a break, although your adult is still very young, so might not object too much.

We do sleep with all of ours downstairs for a couple of nights. We did so even when we had 3 dogs, not least of all because the adult dog/s aren't always enamoured of the interloper and I want to be sure they're all ok with each other before leaving them alone.

Training, initially we did it separately. It was summer, so we did a lot of training in the garden with Pip while Lurcherboy stayed in the house. We also have a dog-gate on the kitchen door, so train on the other side to that if in the house. I will admit to being a complete softy and chucking freebee treats to Lurcherboy while he was sitting on the other side of the gate looking forlorn though.

I do train my two together now, depending on what I'm training. I just make sure each cue includes a name at the start - Kikopup has a video on doing this on YouTube.

It's not a bad idea to get the pup used to time being separate from the other dog, it helps avoid the potential future scenario we had with Lurcherboy when Oldgirl died and he went to pieces, so separate walks are ok. Lurcherboy did end up with somewhat reduced exercise for a while when Pip was tiny, but then I have a howling puppy and attached neighbours so leaving him at home wasn't really an option.

Thank you for the welcome moosemama,a pup picture is now on my profile, taken when she was about 6-7 weeks old.

She is asleep in a dog bed by the side of my chair......still no accidents....

Thanks moosemamma, as usual, your posts are spot on. The thought that I might need to ensure our new guy is not always with Ddog had crossed my mind. I bow to your superiority re Kongs, our dogs gets Primula

Had a super walk today, I have always done a bit of training on walks re recall and 'wait', but DH takes it to a whole new level so I took his example and tried his tricks!

Started off throwing one of Ddogs toys, games of fetch essentially but always dropping the toy in sight, good for reinforcing 'drop' and 'leave it', then progressing to throwing the toy further and out of sight with a 'find it' command. I am not sure if it works with dogs that are not 'sniffers' as a Springer is, but watching him find a toy that he hasn't even seen land is fabulous fun.

I think it also makes me very interesting indeed, as he never knows when I will throw the toy again, so good for recall. We have never had an issue in this regard but I can see how it could help if we do in the future.

Your profile isn't public bluebird.

The kong thing is down to sheer desperation to keep him quiet long enough for me to do the school run and maybe pop to the shops. Haven't been out without him for longer than that since he arrived at the beginning of August, which is just a tad life-restricting. We use primula for recall, interspersed with a whole or half-pack of salmon mousse for jackpot rewards.

Your walk sounds fun needastrongone. Lurcherboy isn't bad at finding toys he hasn't seen land ... for a Lurcher. Pip on the other hand is the first dog I've ever owned that literally can't find a treat by smell, even if it's right in front of him. He's a true sighthound though and is constantly vigilant to things on the horizon, which is quite a shock after all my previous dogs and means we have to watch him like a hawk. It wasn't a problem while his whistle recall was bang-on, but now he's testing his boundaries I am being a bit more wary with him.

Lurcherboy has a chunk of Border Collie in him, which I suppose could explain his ability to search and retrieve. Haven't a clue what Pip's mix is - other than a fair old whack of Saluki and probably a bit of terrier of some sort, judging by his scruffiness.

Well, they all have their strengths and weaknesses, Needadog can't see what is under his nose . Have you just one dog now?

I must admit, separation anxiety was always my biggest worry and I did do the whole 'in/out of a room, out for a few seconds, bit longer, bit longer thing', and we have been lucky, dog just sleeps. I do always ensure he's trained and well walked too before I leave him. He gets left for approx. 5 hours twice a week, I have built up to this time period over the whole year. On working days he gets an extra long walk when I get in, as guilt kicks in

Do you think Pip would still worry if you were a little longer even now? I guess there's no way to check I suppose without using a video.

Stanley can't find a treat if it's right in front of him...he's the worlds thickest spaniel!

He's decided Santa Claus is terrifying today, and has spent large amounts of time snarling and barking at DD's advent calendar with a picture of the man himself on it. It's going to be a loooong Christmas. I'm another one not looking forward to putting the Christmas tree up for fear of puppy massacre.

He's definitely starting with the whole teenage thing too - he refuses to get off the sofa until I push him off, then he glares at me and does a defiant bark/howl kind of noise, just to have the last word .

I have Lurcherboy, who was 8 in November and Pip who was 6 months old yesterday. We lost Oldgirl to bone cancer earlier this year.

I did all the in and out of the room thing, treating him for being quiet in his crate, plus spent hours grabbing the door handle, then opening and closing the door, stepping across the threshold etc. He is also fed all his meals in his crate and gets kongs in there for every school run. He loves his crate and definitely sees it as his safe space.

He was really bad when we first got him and would scream the place down even if I was just standing the other side of the dog gate and he could easily see me - to the extent that he got his jaws stuck around the bars of his crate in panic the first time I tried to leave the room.

I record the dogs on a dictaphone whenever I go out, started doing it when Lurcherboy developed SA when we lost Oldgirl.

I would like to try leaving Pip for a bit longer now, but after my neighbours left a rude note attached to the door about Lurcherboy when he first developed SA (although they were fine after I explained we were working on it and said it wasn't a problem) I'm scared to, just in case he screams the place down and they get cross and think I'm an idiot for getting another dog. It's reaching the point where I am seriously tempted to buy a webcam monitor type set up so I can just sit on the drive or something, so I can tell if he does kick-off and am nearby enough to interrupt him.

I don't think he does have SA, as he's happy to sleep in his crate overnight from 10.30 to 6.30 without a peep, chooses to sleep in there during the day when I'm in a different room and is happy to spend ages perusing the garden on his own - so he doesn't feel the need to be with me 24/7. He does make a racket when I go upstairs, even if dh is downstairs with him, but is easily distracted and doesn't bother if he doesn't actually see me go, iyswim.

To be honest, half the problem is my own anxiety around it. I have a huge hang-up about not letting my dogs negatively affect other people. The first few times I came back and listened to the tape of Lurcherboy howling I sobbed and sobbed, both for him and the effect it was likely to have on our relationship with our neighbours.

I'm currently hoping my neighbours go away for Christmas so we can try leaving him and see how it goes.

I do think I have gone a little bit bonkers now from being stuck at home so much. I used to go out to lunch a couple of times a week and shopping with my Mum, but now the only time I get to go out is to dog club and at the weekends, as he's fine in the car crate so we can wear him out on a long run then leave him for a while now the weather has cooled down. Unfortunately, I am not allowed to drive at the moment, but am tempted to get a crate to fit Mum's car so we can at least go out for a dog walk then coffee.

It's a difficult scenario though isn't it? Trying not to let the dogs affect yours or other peoples lives. Your neighbours don't seem particularly understandable either.

I would have gone more than a bit bonkers , does your DH have any ideas, as he is quite clued up re dog training too?

The kids dressed the dog up in one of their dressing gowns tonight, he looked a bit resigned to his fate after they chased him round the kitchen for 20 minutes trying to put it on him

It's a strange situation with my neighbours. They left a rude sticky note on my door when I was at a school assembly saying the dog was howling - again! At that point I had no idea he was howling at all, as he'd never done it before we lost Oldgirl.

Then when I went to speak to them and explain our old dog had died and the younger one was distraught, but we were doing an intensive separation anxiety programme they were very nice about it and said not to worry, chatted about their brother's gundogs etc. I spent a fortune on treat dispensing toys and kongs, spent hours going in and out, desensitising him to leaving signals, walking him for 3 hours or more a day etc and he made slow progress at first, but then seemed to suddenly improve for no apparent reason.

I explained to them we had decided not to get another dog when we lost Oldgirl, but that all the behaviourists we'd spoken to had suggested that in Lurcherboy's case getting another dog was probably going to be the only thing that worked long-term. I told them I didn't intend to get another dog until we'd come far enough with the SA programme first, but if they saw us with another dog, not to think we were being irresponsible, because it had been recommended by both general behaviourists and breed specialists.

When I had to go to another unavoidable school event I put him in my bedroom, which is on the other side of the house to theirs and put a note through the door apologising if he disturbed them and explaining I'd only be an hour at most. They said they didn't hear him at all when he was in there, but it's not really an option, as there's barely room for a crate and after doing it a couple of times he was wise to the fact that being allowed upstairs meant I was about to leave him.

To be honest, I think they'd be ok-ish, as we're only talking about him being left for about 2 hours once a week, perhaps twice some weeks, but they are very hard to read and I am so anxious about it myself that I can't bring myself to try. (They are both retired, with no pets or children, so not ideal for living next to a noisy dog.)

We don't bump into them on the drive, despite being attached, as there's a huge leylandi hedge between us and they never answer their front door, so it's kind of hard to catch them for a chat about the new pup, although I did introduce them to him when we first brought him home and they know he's a rescue.

Dh has learned all his dog-knowledge from me, so can't really come up with anything new. I think he'd probably just bite the bullet, leave him and see how it goes - it's me and my anxiety that's the problem really.

at your poor resigned pooch. My two have been playing Gozilla and Godzuki to dd's train track and village this evening. She was cross at first but then saw the funny side when Pip kept derailing the freight train with a look of sheer delight!

Now I'm worrying about the teenage years before I've even had the baby section!

For people that slept downstairs with the puppy for the first few nights - Did you take them outside only when they woke up/made noises or at a set time? Did you have to reassure them you were there or was simply your presence enough?

Ive put picture of my soon to be spaniel on my profile but not sure if it works.

Photo worked - v cute! What are you calling him?

We only took Fitz out at night when he was definitely awake and moving around - only had to get up in the middle of the night twice, the next couple of nights I just put my hand through the bars of the crate when he started stirring and td him 'settle' and by the following weekend he was sleeping through without a peep

I've just started taking him out for a little second walk in the afternoon and he's shattered in the evenings - barely manages to stay awake past 8 and is conked out until 7 at the earliest

Dd has so far managed to resist the temptation to try to dress him up but there are lots of photos of me and my sisters as children having dressed up our long-suffering labs in various costumes ...

I saw Santa dog outfits today in poundland and was tempted. He's going to be Marlowe. (well we have stuck with this for a week now). I remember putting hats on mine but you had to take the photo quick as he tore things off in a flash.

Thanks for the night experience. I was 9 when we got our family dog and I do remember we must have overwalked him once (the one and one time) it was so strange to see him exhausted.

You never know, you may be as lucky as me, I went to bed on Finns first night fully expecting to be up at least once and had to restrain myself from checking he was still breathing in the early hours as he was so quiet.
Have never had an accident over night with him,(10.00pm- 6.30am) but i realise I've been very fortunate. Previous puppies were not so good!

We did the same and only took Harry out when he stirred. He only toileted in the night once or twice tops.

moosemamma - if you ever did decide that you were going to bite the bullet with Pip I wonder if you went to discuss the situation with them, they might be understanding? I agree that they pick up on our anxiety, DH just adored and bonded with Harry immediately, I felt I had to do it right all the time, and consequently was anxious and didn't really bond, because I didn't let myself, and he picked up on that for sure. Different story now though!

Don't think the kids are little, they are 14 and 12, dressing the damn dog up!!

Well, we haven't had teenage months and the dog is 13 months, is he classed as a dog or puppy now then?

Damn phone - I meant I wonder if not all dogs go through the teenage months?

I don't think all dogs do go through the teenage thing, most of mine haven't and I've had dogs for over 20 years now. I suppose it's similar to human children, some are awful teenagers, others are well behaved, study hard and don't give their parents regular panic attacks.

needastrongone, it's definitely my anxiety that's the biggest obstacle - even in talking to the neighbours. I'm so to admit to them that we have the same problem with our new dog as we had with Lurcherboy. I do suffer from feeling like I need to do it all right as well, I'm terrible for being a perfectionist, then being too hard on myself when things go wrong.

Years ago I went to college to do canine studies and spent several nights a week dog training, plus more at home with my 3 dogs. I literally lived and breathed dogs before I had my dcs, but I'm so rusty with it being 8 years since we last had a pup and in the meantime life became easy with 3 adult, well-trained dogs in the house. I do try and remind myself regularly that none of those adult dogs were perfect puppies and most of them, being rescues, had some degree of problems that were gradually ironed out as they grew up, but somehow I can believe that about everything ... except SA.

I do have faith that we will get there in the end, it's just a question of how much of my sanity will still be intact by then!

One of my friends has a 13 year old dog and has been saying what an easy puppy she had been. At the weekend she confessed, rather shamefacedly, that she's found an old diary dating back to puppy time and it was full of the naughty things her puppy had done. Time erases the struggle I think.

I keep reminding DH that the well trained dogs he used to walk were the result of many hours of hard work on my part. All worth it in the end though.

It's lovely reading about all the older pups and new ones.

I have been a bit immersed in work and child things so left minty to get on with things and he's been fine but done zero training and that's not good. He can only do sit, flat and stay. I have got to exercise four in Total Recall with the whistle but not used it for 2weeks - do I need to start from scratch again?

I feel for you Moose with not being able to leave the house - you might adapt fine to the restriction but if you ever need to leave for a 2-3 hr period say for hospital appointment or visiting someone, you'd be really worried. Can you ask the neighbours for a few weeks to turn a deaf ear while you extend Pips tolerance to being left? They do sound a bit precious.

We have hit teenage boldness - charging up the stairs (he's not allowed and knows it) ducking out the way when I grab him, jumping at people & counters - he grabbed the treats for a walk from kitchen counter while I was in the loo and scoffed the lot! He's in danger of being a bad influence on our teenage son!

Mint, I have actually cancelled all my hospital appointments - not just because of Pip, partly because I am so sick of attending them and finding each one is a waste of time. If we do have to go somewhere important dh drives and Pip is happy enough in the crate in the car. Don't know why, maybe the association between crate and long weekend walks?

Pip is doing the stair charging thing as well. When I'm over this cold/virus thingy I'm going to do lots of work on rewarding him for not going through the living room door without permission and perhaps waiting at the bottom of the stairs as well when he has been allowed through. Not sure how successful it will be, as galumphing up the stairs seems to fill him with such delight that it's clearly highly rewarding to him at the moment. Daft thing is, he doesn't know what to do with himself once he's up there, he just does a circuit of the rooms and comes back down again - I think it's the actual ascent that he enjoys.

He stole Lurcherboy's school-run treat yesterday morning as well. It was the last one, so I had to quickly cobble together an extra kong for Lurcherboy and we were nearly late for school.

He's also decided it's fun to nip people's bums when they turn their back on him. He sits nicely to greet people when they come in, all butter wouldn't melt, then as soon as they turn their back to walk off he bites their bum! He doesn't do it hard - tends to just grab the back pockets of jeans etc, but he does it with such joy and is always ready to dance away when told off for it, so it's become a bit of a game. It started with dh, who is far too soft on him and has gone from there - although he doesn't have the guts to try it with me. I have been working on it over the past couple of days and he is improving but I'm seriously unimpressed, as he wasn't a nippy 'little' pup at all.

Gotta love the teenager stage - that's why there are so many older pups/young adults in rescue centres up and down the country. It's one of those times when the mantra 'this too shall pass' is very apt.

We had a galloping up the stairs moment today, he got told off and sulked in his bed for 5 minutes before lurking for scraps from the kids breakfast. It was DD's fault as she was playing with him, then just left to go upstairs to get ready, leaving doors open etc.

I do find that the more I do with him the more he 'expects', if that is the right word, think trying to initiate cuddles, dropping his toys at our feet, wanting attention etc. When I don't have quite so much time, and he ''knows' I am busy, he will just lie at my feet.

Have really stepped up the training this week, so I have a dog wanting a lot of attention. Not sure whether to continue or back off? I do love training him, but then he becomes a pain in the ass

Laughing at the bum nipping but feeling sympathy for you too moosemamma at not being well and being so restricted too. Your perfectionism observation about yourself resonates very much with me too

Also meant to mention that on our morning walk, we met a dog that is fear aggressive towards other dogs, so is always kept on lead. When we see him, I put Harry on lead, make him sit, watch me and give him a treat until the dog passes. The dog always growls, snaps and tries to get to Harry. The owner ALWAYS hits him for growling. I never say anything, but can't bring myself to speak to her.

Surely the dog will now associate other dogs with pain?

Couldn't face a morning walk after wobbling and sweating my way through the school run, so have done some sofa-bound clicker training and now both dogs are spark out at my feet. Think dh might have to do the long walk when he gets home from work tonight.

Needastrongone, I find that with my dogs too. The more training and interaction they get, the more they want, as if they forget how to entertain themselves. I have to be quite strict about ignoring overtures for play and Lurcherboy's habit of constantly going in the back porch to snout his lead and harness then 'talk' to me.

Bum nipping - yes, typical of Pip to choose something comical to get up to. He's a bit of a joker really. Thank goodness he has good bite inhibition and doesn't actually hurt anyone - but still needs dealing with asap all the same.

That woman on your walk sounds awful, poor dog doesn't stand a chance.

I have just spent a joyful hour stuffing kongs with pilchards etc. I really hate doing it, as having been veggie since I was 12 I can't stand the smell and my stomach turns over at all the little bones etc. Still I now have a week's worth in the freezer. Just have the chicken to cook for training class tomorrow. >

I wish I could bottle the smell of 8 week old puppy paws. They're delicious.