the secret life of dogs. shouldnt ahve watched it

[waikikamookau]

anyway, I didn't catch it all but there was a rotweiler who I believed peed and pood in the house when owners went out.
my pup does that.
what was their solution?
was it a mat and a kob with treats?

I thought it was really interesting. The presenter was on the radio earlier in the day too and gave an interesting interview.

I think my dog is relaxed when we go out, we've certainly never seen any indications otherwise, but now I feel like I want to film her to check!

I found it quite upsetting. I think that brown dog is fine when we are out, but I don't know that.

I know lots of people who work FT and have dogs, but don't know any who have mentiones SA.

Berthadog and I both found it upsetting. She was very unsettled by the sound of the dogs crying. Just put a picture on my profile of her watching it.

DH and I work from home and it's like a military operation trying to arrange diaries so she doesn't get left alone. And we pay for a dog walker to break up any period that she is home alone. Just don't understand how people who work out of the house for the whole day manage.

Brown dog was upset too - in fact I switched it off because of this.

DH mainly works from home, I do sometimes and DS is in by 1600, there are days however when he is left for more than a couple of hours and seems fine. On the odd day we are all out I worry myself silly, but I do know plenty of people who work full time out of the home, and don't seem concerned.

Often during the day he seems to sleep all day anyway.

The lady who used to live in our house worked FT out of the house and the neighbours say her dog barked all day.

I agree, moosemama. The programme just didn't go far enough. I was disappointed that it was just a bit of sensationalism based around how many dogs get stressed when left alone, without looking at the rest of their lives. For example, I believe dogs who are always with their owners when they are at home (i.e. sleep on their beds etc) find separation much harder. I would like to have seen the difference in lifestyles between the unstressed dogs and the stressed dogs. Now THAT would have been interesting and potentially helpful.

(Preparing to be attacked by owners who have their dogs on their beds all night!)

I think it's even more complicated than that MotherOfGirls. For example, there's a lot of evidence (anecdotal admittedly) that sighthounds who are allowed to sleep in the room with their owners have a tendency to be more secure and less likely to develop SA than those who sleep in a different room.

Grisha Stewart (Ahimsa and BAT dog training) advocates having puppies in your room to begin with to form a secure attachment/bond and avoid SA later and this advice is becoming more and more common with behaviourists. It works on the theory that a securely attached pup will have a greater level of trust and security and therefore be less likely to fret that their human won't return.

I suspect a lot of it has to do with resilience too, so good quality, early socialisation will also play a huge part, as being able to cope with new or less than perfect situations plays a important part of emotional stability.

(My dogs sleep in the kitchen by the way! )

Moosemama, can you elaborate on 'calm exit and entrance'? Does that mean don't make a fuss saying goodbye/hello, should you ignore for a few mins before saying hello when you come in etc?

That's really interesting, Moosemama. I guess it is the same as childcare, in that advice changes as time goes on and also what works for one individual is not guaranteed to work for another - there are so many factors involved.

Our two year old and 4 month old (dogs, not children!) are in the kitchen for some down time for a couple of hours in the morning while I'm in the house and a couple of hours in the afternoon while I'm out. (Pup in crate and older dog not.) I don't hear a peep from them in the morning and so I like to think they are reasonably relaxed in the afternoon too.

Yay for dogs sleeping in the kitchen! Our last dog used to snore too loudly to sleep anywhere else.

That's basically it, but it's also part of keeping your exit habits/rituals low key. I tend to get things ready either a bit at a time or while the dogs are in the garden or something so they don't hover about watching me get my stuff together.

About 10-15 minutes before it's time to leave I put them in their beds and tell them to settle (they've both been conditioned to the settle cue and I do this regularly throughout the day when I'm not leaving as well). Then I might go and sit on the sofa and watch tv or read for 10 minutes or so or sometimes perhaps do the dishes or have a quick tidy round (it needs to be different things each time really) before quietly going in, putting down their kongs (in the pup's case he's in his crate so I just open the door and pop his kongs in) then leave without saying a word. When I was working on Lurcherboy's SA I would do this whole process, then go straight back in, remove kong and go and sit down again or make myself a cuppa, leaving it different lengths of time before going back in, so he was never sure if I was actually going out or just leaving him for a few seconds or minutes.

When we return home, for example after the school run, as my dogs are in the kitchen, I deal with the dcs, bags, coats, shoes, book-bags etc - read any school letters and get the dcs changed out of uniforms before I go into the dogs. Then I go in the kitchen, say a calm 'hi guys' and proceed to make the dcs snacks. The dogs aren't expecting a huge hullabaloo of a greeting, so tend to carry on chomping they're kongs and when the dcs sit down for their snack I give the dogs a fuss and say a proper, but calm hello.

Both dogs seem genuinely pleased to see their kongs and can't wait for me to go so they can get stuck into them. I record them on a dictaphone to see if they're quiet. Lurcherboy is now happily settled for just under two hours, then he starts whining, but Pip starts whingeing, then yelling as soon as he's scoffed his kongs and treat toys - so either just under or just over an hour, depending on how clever he is at unstuffing his kongs.

It's been a very long, slow process with Lurcherboy, despite him only starting to show signs of SA after we lost our other dog to cancer back in April. He is definitely much more relaxed now, but if they tested his cortisol levels, I'd say they almost definitely increase and continue to increase dramatically as soon as he finishes his kong. When I first started the programme he was too stressed to eat when I wasn't home and would flood the kitchen floor with drool - so he's come a very long way, but it's been very hard work and extremely life consuming.

MoG, I can hear Lurcherboy snoring in the kitchen, when I'm in my bedroom above. I dread to think what it would be like if he was sleeping in our room!

moosemama, your dogs are so lucky to have you!

Great advice:)

Moosemama, that is a great post and really helpful for those of us with young puppies. My new puppy is 12 weeks and came to us at 8 weeks from a great breeder who did lots of socialisation.

I am very concerned about SA and the breeder mentioned it several times as an issue with spaniels so I am working very hard to avoid it.

I leave my puppy regularly for different short intervals (to put laundry away, go to the loo, do housework etc...). I never make a fuss or comment and just leave her in the kitchen with doors closed. She sometimes lurks around near the door, occasionally cries a little, but today I have come back twice to find her happily chewing away on a toy, oblivious to my absence. I am very happy about that!

When I go out, I leave her for a max of 3 hours (twice since we've had her - normally it's 1.5 to 2 hours max), but I only do that if she has had a walk/play, been fed and done her business in the garden. She is in a pen with newspaper down and has stopped weeing and pooing when I am out, and her newspaper is nice and tidy when I get back. I leave her with one kong and some other chewies. I am hoping that all of this means she is happy being left and will continue to be so! I dread to think she could be like the dogs in the program.....

I try to keep entrances very low key, although my 3 dc's do tend to run in after a day at school shrieking to see who can cuddle puppy first :-).

ladydepp that's my problem, I can keep exits/entrance loy key but the kids find it hard to hold back!

low key

Here are some tips, they have worked well for me.

• Take the dog for a walk if possible before going out.
• Keep your entrance and exit low key. Don’t make a big deal out of it. Get yourself prepared out of the pet’s sight. Keep it brief. You running around like a headless chicken will only make him more anxious.
• Avoid touching and eye contact when you are preparing to leave. Say your goodbye 10 minutes before you actually leave.
• Avoid letting your dog becoming clingy, some people will smother their pets more than their kids. It will not do children’s confidence much good if they are smothered, neither the dog’s. You have to let them explore and be by themselves under supervision instead of holding them in your arms and cuddling them all the time.
• Your dog associates you putting on your coat with you leaving, so maybe on a day off or during the weekend, just put on your coat and sit indoors, or do house work with a coat on, hopefully him seeing you with a coat on is no big deal.
• Do lots of dummy exits when you are free...(leave the house for a few minutes and return.... have a fag outside or something)
• Toys and treats may help.

I really rate this book for understanding and dealing with Separation Anxiety. The other one is I'll Be Home Soon, by Patricia McConnell but I found that one less useful, as it didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know.

Moosemama and Butterflylovers = these are really good tips and advice. I rather wish you two had introduced and produced this TV programme as I found it shallow and unhelpful. Also the experts did not have a lot of time to explain anything. Wow, some dogs get upset and fed up when their owners are away - who knew? The programme is unlikely to help anyone dealing with SA issues - read MN doghouse for help instead!

Couple of questions opinions - Can anyone tell me what to put in a kong - is it that horrible looking gloop or do you put treats in it or Border Terrier has just gone grain free so wondered what to put in it treats wise or licky bloop stuff???? I work from home most of the time but canbe out for a few hours at a time seeing clients. She doesn't appear stressed but like others the programem concerend me that maybe she is.

She is left in our V large kitchen with access through doggie cat flap to the garden which is fully enclosed and secure (we are rural) so figured it wasnt a terrible place to be left.... I'd take her out with me when I go out but she doesnt like the car really...now she does get a bit stressy about that!

thekingfisher this is pretty much it, but if you Google there are literally hundreds of kong stuffing recipes online. You just experiment using foods your dog likes.

My dogs are also grain free and the most common one they currently get contains their kibble with either some peanut butter or Fish4Dogs salmon mousse, followed by a layer of cooked chicken pieces, then some more kibble then a plug of either the peanut butter or mousse again.

Other things worth trying, depending on what your dog can tolerate are soft cheese, cheese chunks, fruit, egg, mince, pate, meat stock frozen, kibble soaked in stock or water then frozen etc - just about anything you are happy for your dog to eat and that you know won't upset their digestion really.

I agree with the other posters, helpful advice from Moosemama and Butterflylovers.

To be told on the programme that many dogs suffer from SA but display no symptoms so their owners don't realize was a bit unhelpful, especially when we were then not given any advice on how to identify dogs that come into this category. I felt it skated round the edges a bit with a lot of its information, but then I supposed it wasn't made as an advice programme.

My dog pretty much ignores me when I come back into the house (she's usually upstairs) and it can be as much as 10 or 15 minutes before she comes downstairs, says hello and then just gets on with doing her usual doggy stuff. I'd love to know if this is because she's relaxed or if she's so stressed she's too unhappy to greet me in the mad way she greets most people, or perhaps she just doesn't like me, who knows :). I just have to hope its the former as I've no way of knowing.

THANKS MOOSEMAMA!

sorry didnt mean to shout!

The science was quite flawed on the dogs that had raised cortisol levels but did not appear stressed when left.

The raised cortisol levels could be due to the blood test itself and other issues so I would not be overally concerned if your dog is calm when left that it has SA.

However all dogs need their owners company and regulary leaving your dog for hours is not in the dogs interest.

Dogs were domesticated and bred to work, to hunt, to work on farms, they were with their “pack” most of the time.
As people’s roles changed and less work outdoors, a lot of the dog’s work became redundant.
So it’s inevitable that people have to leave dogs home alone.
Besides breeding dogs to work, people often breed dogs for show, for companionship plus other selfish reasons, but that’s another topic.
I just think unless you can look after a dog properly then you should not have one just because you like the look, the status of certain breeds or simply wanting their company, it’s a very selfish reason for owning a dog.

Absolutely idir. I am a bit cross that they have so many dedicated dog owners worried that their dog is actually stressed when appearing to be calm and relaxed while left.

I know of two people who have taken the decision not to leave their dog at all as a result of the programme, because they can't be 100% sure they're happy, despite the dogs never having shown signs of being anything other than relaxed when left. They are lovely people, who really care about their dogs and never leave them excessively anyway. Their dogs don't appear to have a problem with being left at present, but if they never leave them from now on and then find their lives change and they have to - or there's an emergency and they have no choice the dogs are now more likely to be stressed as a result of never being separated from them. So the programme has had a detrimental effect on those particular dogs.

They didn't do enough to find out why the cortisol levels were raised and the fundamental differences between the dogs in the study, from breeding and background, through health, lifestyle and early life experience and as you say - a vet with a needle is enough to raise cortisol in many dogs - much like humans get white coat hypertension. Blimey, just the thought of a blood test raises my stress levels and that's before I even see a needle. The reporting of the study was highly flawed and unnecessarily sensationalist imo

The rescue group that the Rottie x is from have put out a statement objecting to the way they were portrayed by the programme as well. They are unhappy that the programme implied he would be pts if returned and they are a no-kill charity, so that was never on the cards.