Ok, now Im really confused about the growling!

[picnicinthewoods]

I have been worried at my 16 week old puppys growling, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt since hes had an upset tummy (with blood) and also has only been with us 2 weeks. Growling started on about day 2.
We are going to puppy training next week, so will get more advice then and are also having a one off session with a behaviourist. However, since the panic, Im now really confused as he growls at everything!
He growls when hes happy and excited (say when we come home from popping out), I know hes happy cos his tail is wagging!
He growled at the x-factor (but quite frankly I think that's allowed!!). He growls and barks if my DD wears her tap outfit or weirdly, her Brownie outfit.
He growled today when he could see the trees outside blowing in the wind.
He growled at my husband when he took his glasses off.
He growls when you play with him (again tail is wagging).
He growls when hes frightened and hides behind me.
He growls when hes trying to rest and he wants the kids to go away!
He is a very submissive dog, rolls over to be stroked, is very timid and shy. He is also an excellent communicator.
So in short, is this normal?????!!!!!

Sorry for similar post to before but just wanted to know if all this extra growling means anything else? and does anyone else have a dog/puppy that growls at odd things?

Your behaviourist should be able to help you with the reason for the growling and to be honest, it wouldn't be a good idea for anyone here to tell you why he's doing it, as you really need to see the dog's body language and hear the growling in context to even begin to have an idea

It could be that he's just a talkative chap, but equally, he could be anxious and expressing it through growling.

My own pup never shuts up and has a wide range of vocalisations from growling to the most earsplitting incredible yodelling, all used with no malice whatsoever. He has a good chunk of Saluki in his make-up and I'm told being 'chatty' is quite common for them, in fact I've watched a few videos of Salukis on YouTube that sound just like him.

I have a Bulldog and she will growl at anything that is not in it's proper place (they are known for this). However there is a difference between the grumbly growl as we call it and a growl when she feels threatened and is being defensive. As your puppy is being submissive at the same time it could just be that he is being vocal rather than anything else.

It's hard to say without seeing his body language and facial expression when he's doing it. But, FWIW, my dog is very vocal and makes growly noises for all sorts of non-aggressive reasons. Yours might be the same, or he might be feeling off-colour because of his upset stomach/stressed about being in a new place/something else.

The behaviourist will be able to tell you more, but even if he is being aggressive, at such an early stage it's something that can be sorted out.

Our 8 month old rescue GSD snarls and growls when he's in a playful mood. Lab was so startled the first time he did it that he jumped onto my lap, we were both huddled in a corner of the settee wondering if we were about to be attacked. Now they playfight together for hours and lab has learnt to make scary noises as well

Growling is not aggression, tailwagging does not always mean happy.

Without seeing your dog it does sound like he is an anxious chap and lacking in confidence. Where did you get him from and what was his environment like before you had him.

It does sound like he is very unsure of things around him and just needs time to build his confidence at his own pace.

Walk away from any trainer that punishes him for growling.

Thanks all! Just to add to the growling list today: growled at a pushchair & also every time I pick up his poo in the garden, which is coupled with trying to pull me away by my sleeve! ha ha! It doesn't feel aggressive because straight afterwards he will roll onto his back for a rub.
I totally appreciate you cannot advise me without seeing his body language, so I will wait for behaviourist appointment at the w/end.
I think he is a combo of timid and chatty.......I think! He is generally a very communicative puppy (but don't have anything to compare him to), as in he tells me when he wants to go to bed at night by putting his two front paws on my knees. He stands by the garden door and does a little wimper when he wants the toilet. He makes it clear when he wants to play by bringing me a toy and is also clea when he doesn't want to play etc
idirdog, we got him from a breeder who breeds goldens & collies. They are breeders and also trainers. People who get their pups have gone back again for another. They breed for temperament. I met the mum, dad, gran, uncle etc and so forth and they were all very nice dogs. They had a house full of their own dogs and were real dog lovers but just goldens and collies. They have a fb page with all their previous puppy owners etc and many of their dogs go back to them when their owners holiday. we had to go through a very thorough interview via email, then telephone, then 2 face to face meetings. The vibes were all good I thought. This pup was even their favourite and they were all visibly upset at him going.
In terms of body language, well its different each time he growls! Sometimes he seems scared and hides. Sometimes his ears are pricked up and he seems 'on alert'. Sometimes he seems excited, jumping up, turning around, wagging tail. Sometimes he sits completely still!!!

He doesn't show his teeth when he growls by the way. I think the growl is more like a grumbly sound, but I just don't know!
Surely dogs make noises, they cant just be quiet all the time?

moosemama, could you tell me what your pup growls at and also what clues he gives you that make you sure its not aggressive? Just trying to compare:)

He loves other dogs by the way:) My gut feeling is that he would have been better placed with a family who already had a dog to show him the ropes.

Is he a collie or a goldie?

Ask the breeder?

yes he's a goldie.

I have asked the breeder but I don't want to keep hassling them. Im hassling you guys instead I realise that!! They were a little surprised I think, but didn't think the growling was aggressive from our descriptions. They did think perhaps it was linked to his upset tum and that maybe he just wasn't himself. The parents (of pup) are laid back, especially the mum, but not timid. When we chose him, they helped us narrow it down based on our criteria, but said the whole litter were very laid back except one female who was 'very fiesty'.

he may be lacking in confidence and growling to show he is not 100 percent hapoy with situations..so not aggressive more a whats that whats going on voicing. ...I would consider gettig a behaviourist to give you some one on one help with him to understand exactly what is going on...and possibly to help mamage him tobincrease his confidence as hes still young so ciuld come on in leaps and bounds with a bit of help

I'm another one whose dog has a lot of growly-type vocalisations that convey different things according to the accompanying body language and context. Mine will growl when he is worried by someone's attention -- he is wary and very much likes to be left alone in his own space when tired. But when it happens with family members it is definitely not a close prelude to biting, it is way down the scale from that. It communicates discomfort and shouldn't be ignored but it isn't threatening.

But he also growls happily during play. And during his ridiculously over-the-top attempts to get attention: he will start by fixing my eye with a hard stare, then do noisy yawns and sneezes, then growl and also make a surprisingly loud click by snapping his teeth together. NONE of that is at all aggressive.

OTOH, he doesn't like strangers and if they insist on stroking him (despite me asking them not to! sheesh!) he will eventually growl in a serious business-like way that definitely means "I give you fair warning, I hate this and if pressed too far I will snap at you."

So many different growls, such a repertoire of communication. A behaviourist plus your growing experience of the dog will help you learn what is going on. I know that I worried too much about my dog's growliness when he was a puppy. He's seven now and I get him. He has always been brilliant with the family but I don't expect him ever to tolerate strangers well.

How does the growling sound and what is her expression? My dog is a growler but expression and sound vary greatly. It's actually very easy to distinguish each type once you get to know one another, you will learn together. My girl is a cocker and they are very expressive vocally, she's not a barker just varying growls.

In the weeks we've had him hes only barked twice so don't think hes much of a barker but perhaps is going to be a growler!!
I will obviously need to get to know him better to work it all out with him.
ButThereAgain, he sounds so similar to your dog. He really likes his own space too. I must say I don't think hes that fussed with people and is going to be one who tolerates them rather than loves the attention. Its a bit disappointing though. I wanted a people dog. But you get what you get and you just have to deal with it I guess. we love him though:)

Picnic, I would recommend you read Turid Rugaas' book On Talking Terms with Dogs and also look at some of the videos of her work on YouTube. It will help you get a better understanding of his body language and what it means. It's a very quick read - I got through it in a couple of hours, but now use it frequency for reference purposes.

Another good book for this is Ahimsa Dog Training by Grisha Stewart.

You can do the 'look inside' thing on Amazon to get a quick idea of how they can help you if you read the whole book.

The other book I'd highly recommend is Life Skills for Puppies.

I know my dog isn't being aggressive because I have had dogs for many years and spent a lot of time studying and researching them and attending dog clubs and classes. I take his whole demeanour and body language etc into consideration in deciding whether his vocalisations are aggressive.

It wouldn't be appropriate for me to tell you when/how my dog growls, as it would have little relevance to your dog and your situation. You really need someone experienced to observe him and help you figure it out.

picnic, I too sometimes feel a little disappointed that my dog is not really one who loves lots of cuddles. I have to be quite careful when I show him affection because he treats any over-the-top approach as a cue to give off appeasing signals. I have to be low key, perhaps not look too directly at him as my hand sneaks out to tussle his ears, etc. It does work though, you just have to work at reading his language and writing it yourself.

And in a way it is very gratifying to have a dog who is not a "people person": if he is definitely not happy to bound joyfully and confidently around any old person, it means that the intimacy that he gives his owner (in whatever way he is happy to give it) really means something, it really means that you have won his trust and loyalty. I feel very very close to my dog even though I have to respect his need to sometimes secure himself by a kind of aloofness. So I'm sure you will have a rewarding time with yours.

Thanks moosemama, I'll look those titles up. Im just so new to all of this! Its a whole new world!!

Thanks too ButThereAgain, that's made me feel better:) Funny, we are quite a quiet, shy family ourselves and think we sort of subconsciously chose the reserved puppy of the litter. They do say like dog, like owner or something so its very fitting really:)

And you never know, he might come bounding out of his shell as he settles in to his new life and become a total limelight lover. Sixteen weeks is very young and everything is all still up in the air.

Hope you have a great time with him.

Thank you:) You guys are brilliant. Ive been feeling like crying about this but you've made me feel so much better. Thanks:)

You'll be fine picnic. You sound like a lovely caring owner and you've already done the right thing by arranging to see a behaviourist and booking some classes.

You're on the right path and you will get there.

:)

We have a goldie.

She growls when she's playing. She growls when she's excited and impatient, She growls at our other dog when they play. She growls to get your attention if you've ignored the pleading eyes and head on your lap.

She also makes a whole host of other noises which can seem like growling but are other vocalisations. They are a very vocal breed.

She whines when you come home and does a little dance with her front paws because she really wants to be bouncing up and down but knows she isn't allowed to.

As others have said look for facial expressions and body language to give you more hints about what she's growling at.
Look at a few breed specific sites too.