please help.....which breed?

[absentmindeddooooodles]

ok, i'll try to keep this as short as possible.

we have a 10 month old german shepard bitch. She is a total handful, but we have been and still are very dedicated to helping her to settle down and really be a part of the family.

She will not go to the toilet outside. always all over the kitchen and its too much for me with a toddler. She wont sit still for a second. Jumps up, nips and is generally crazy. We have tried everything. She gets alot of company and excersise aswell as fun and downtime. We have hired a professional trainer and he made little progress.

With his help we observed her, at home and out on walks. She is quite confrontational with big dogs, but with smaller breeds she becomes this wonderful happy playful little thing. She follows them, plays beautifully and does not try to dominate the situation.

The dog trainer suggested we get a small dog to keep her company and help teach her the basics at home. His theory on this was that she would eventually follow the other dogs example and start to go outside/not eat every kitchen appliance etc.

We would get a rescue dog. A little older. Already been trained, but that has been around other dogs and children. ( i realise there will always be more work to do with any other dog we get, and am prepared for this) Both dp and i have always had dogs and never had such a problem with one before.

She has chewed through 2 tumble driers, a ( wooden) backdoor. & 7 cupboard fronts, 2 door frames, every bit of skirting in the kitchen....aswell as more clothes shoes and toys than i could count. Before anyone thinks tat she must be left too long to do this, im a sahm. shes never left on her own for more than 3 hours, and that is not very often at all.

Anyway.....the reason i posted.....what kind of breed should i be researching? The dog would need to get on with a bigger breed, and be ok with a toddler ( who is very good with animals, but obvs you can never be too careful) We have a love;y set up for a dog ( watertight kennels and yard soley for dogs. nice garden, park across the road etc) so am confident that this could help all round :) We always planned on getting another dog anyway, as when i go back to work in a couple of years ( part time) we'd like her to have some company.

Any advice would be fab. At my wits end here.

Claimed Is right

You seem to have been given bad advice, no wonder nothing seems to be working .
I would run a mile from any trainer(s) that told me to "point it out" to dog that pees/poos in the house.
Standard advice is to stay neutral, even if you feel angry try not to show it because that will increase dog's stress and worsen behaviour. Dogs don't enjoy soiling their home and don't do it to annoy. They must already be feeling stressed or confused (or possibly be ill) if they keep doing it.
Be as calm as possible and remove dog from area and clean up, using bio detergent or pet spray to remove all traces of smell. Normal cleaners, disinfectants etc aren't effective and dog likely to keep toiletting in same area if the tiniest bit of smell remains.

We got a 2+yr dog last autumn who wasn't housetrained - she had never been in a house before, but had learned that 'inside' was where you did things rather than when you were out... We had to get her to understand that the opposite was the case - this took hypervigilance and we also used a longline in the garden to keep her focused on what she was meant to be doing rather than investigating all the interesting smells etc. We ended up with her in our room - being on her own she didn't settle - in our room I woke up if she got up and started heading downstairs so was able to follow and take her into the garden rather than soiling the rug (again) - it took a while, but she's now very reliable.

Have you tried clicker training with her? This is in relation to her general boisterousness - it sounds as though you need to exercise her brain as much as her body - and clicker training is good on that. this is a good clicker training guide that I've seen recommended a lot.

Out on walks, I know lots of people that have had problems with dogs pulling have a harness with a Dring at the front - if the dog pulls it effectively turns itself around to face you if the lead is taut - I've heard of several pullers that have learned to walk on a slack lead with help from these.

Also FWIW ,my mum had a kitchen eating dog , he mainly ate the floors, kick boards and oven housings . He had many lovely qualities including being a wonderful singer . We got him from Battersea as a pup with another unrelated pup and having company never stopped him chewing .

I agree with everyone that's said you need to get a different trainer, one who uses only positive techniques (APDT or APBC registered). The last thing a GSD needs is someone using Jan Fennell's techniques or any punitive or dominance/pack hierarchy stuff on it, they are a sensitive breed that needs lots of intellectual stimulation, as well as all the exercise.

You do sound like a lovely owner that has worked very hard with this dog, but it sounds like you have been given duff advice.

Ender's advice is spot on re when you find she's messed or wet in the house and the same is true for destructiveness. She doesn't have a clue what she's done is 'naughty' she is giving you appeasing calming signals (flattening herself the the ground, ears back etc) because your body stance and vocalisations are threatening to her and she's trying to diffuse the situation.

Clicker training would be a good way forward, as - done correctly - it's totally positive and builds a bond between handler and dog. The link in Mistlethrush's post is a good place to start.

Thanks so much for all the advice.

We have done clicker training from the start, and has worked perfectly with recall and sit when we are outdoors. She loves it, and we give her turkey as a reward rather than any chews etc.

Does sound like some bad advice. Im so suprised. I thought tjat by paying for a well renowned trainer ( ×3!!!) Would gaeuntee us the best start. :(

I genuinley cannot do the crate again. We tried for so solong. Ended up with noise complaints from neighbours 7 houses away aswell as next door both sides. Ds was so distressed with the noise too, and none of us got any sleep for weeks and weeks on end. We never ever forced her into the crate. Did the gradual inteoducing of it, treats, putting bed in there and leavingthe door open etc etc, it just did not work for her.Tbh I

im not as worried about the chewing. Shes a baby....god knows the amount of damage my ds has caused! Haha. I just cannot bear having to clean up a mountian of crap and a sea of pee multiple times a day anymore. The link up thread sounds great. Thankyou.

I feel bad that Ie done wrong by pointing mess out. Literally everyone told me that was the way to go. Damn it.

The last person we got in was a behavioural expert and the previous two werw dog trainers. The last one made the most progress, but not really any major changes.

We have alot of toys that are great mental stimulation that we can all use with her, rather than leaving her to her own devices. She is so full of beans that it gets a bitmuch for her and she nips pretty hhard. I expect a bit of nipping, but now she is so big and strong im getting so worried that she will lash out at ds. Shes not agressive, they are never left alone togetjer and he knows and is always observed closeley so theres no pulling her about or agrivating her........ but theres just that fear tjat it will happen.

That is the inly circumstance that I would ever consider rehoming her. This is why its getting me down so much. I just want it to work so she can be the lovely part of thefamily that she should be. :(

Please don't feel bad. You are obviously a very patient and caring owner. You can only go on the advice you've been given and if the trainers have all been recommended to you by lots of people it's easy to feel you should put your trust in them. We've all learned from our mistakes along the way and I for one am still learning - daily. We were given similar advice years ago, when dh and I first had dogs and didn't think to question what we thought were good qualified behaviourists.

Fortunately for us - and our dogs - we moved to a different area and came across a fantastic, positive dog trainer who inspired me to do more research, learn as much as I could and use only positive techniques from then on. Time has moved on since those methods were considered appropriate, sadly some trainers are stuck in a training rut and fail to keep themselves up to date with current research and methods.

Thanks moosemama. We are in quite a rural area, and alot of people tend to be stuck in their ways.

Think along the lines of..." ooooh spag bol, na love dont eat all that forrin stuff. Pasty for me!"

I think after some research like you say, the advice we have been given is dated. Hmmmmmm.

Unfortunatley....the three we used are the only ones in our area. :/

Lots of internetting tonight me thinks.

I can highly recommend this quick to read book which might help you understand your girl's body language and therefore her emotional state and motivation.

The other one I love, which is bang up to date an really positive is The Ahimsa Dog Training Manual by Grisha Stewart. You can see some of her stuff on Youtube as well as the Kikopup videos Mistlehound recommended upthread.

Along similar lines, moosemama, I recently bought Life Skills for Puppies by Mills and Zulch, and was so impressed it's now my primary book suggestion for new owners. Lots of pictures and a heavy focus on reading body language and understanding motivations. It is a great read for any dog owner.

Good luck OP, and keep us posted.

That's the other book I always recommend. I even made my older two dcs read it so that they had a proper understanding of what having a puppy entails and why puppies do the things they do and need handling in certain ways.

It definitely paid off because they have been so good with him and in turn he's been really good with them.

thanks so much guys. will be buying and reading them all!!

she jumped over the stairgate at dinner time tonight, bounded straight in and launched herself into my dinner :/

not impressed. She got a mouthfull of chilli so not sure her stomach is going to be feeling upto much!

will keep you posted. Have been doing some research and for the love of god i will get it right this time :D

I may be biased but staffies are smaller but very robust and would stand up easily to a GSDs rough play.
They're also not hard to come by and it should be easy to find a well behaved dog in rescue.
When my dog was going through his difficult teenage stage we happened to be fostering a much older rotty and it was through him that my dog learnt how to toilet outside and general better house manners.