A question for experienced behaviourists/trainers/owners re pup killed hen

[MrsMcGregor]

Would be very grateful for any advice on where to start with a major problem.

Our 20 week old lab pup today gained access to our hens and killed one. We initially thought a fox had done it because the head was ripped off, chest opened and everything inside eaten. However, after locking the other hens in for most of the day I let them out late afternoon when I was outside to keep an eye. For unrelated reasons, the pup had been in her run most of the day so I let her out simultaneously. Took my eye off for 5 mins and in that time, the pup had gone into next door's field from where she must have found somewhere to access our property where the hens are. She can't get in from this end because it has been fortified with netting. Anyway, heard a rumpus, ran like a mad woman and rescued another hen from her clutches.

Now to give the pup credit, when I called her name and off, leave, come she came to me. Ran back after the hen once but came again when I called her and followed me back to the house. The hen is fine.

Clearly, the first thing we will do is make sure the hens are safely enclosed (as we had thought they were - sigh).

Where do we start with the pup? Is it back to lots of supervised, on lead walks around the cooks? I worry now that she's killed one, tried to kill another and, of course, she's a lab whose instinct is to kill. We're obviously willing to put in whatever work is needed to try and sort this out.

Advice very much appreciated if you've got this far!

Oh goodness, how awfully upsetting. No advice really except to say keep on with the normal training so that he will listen and come back, and keep him away from the hens & other temptations.

I have a JRT that likes to fight other dogs and also once killed a partridge that flew out of the hedge and so is now basically kept on a lead apart from when it is judged to be completely safe to take him off.

Recently he was on a friend's farm & chased the calves, & got a nasty kick from one. DH thought that would teach him not to chase, but next time he went in even more hard, presumably thinking to get his own back! I never see JRTs off the lead round here, and now I know why!

A labs instinct is not to kill. They are bred to have soft mouths to pick up game without damaging it. They can carry eggs without breaking their shell.

What your puppy saw was an animated toy that made noise. The fact she killed the hen was just a by product.

The safest way to deal with this is to make sure she has ZERO access to the hens and plenty of games with you and plenty of mental stimulation.

This is also a good game to play with her so she changes the way she thinks about the chickens. From 'yay chickens-must chase' to 'yay chickens, where is the sausage?'

TBH I'd be more concerned that she got into next doors field than that she killed a hen which would be IMO quite a natural thing to do . Rather than secure the hens I'd concentrate on securing the dog in your garden .

I'm not an expert in labs (or hens) but a labs have been bred to carry rather than to kill, haven't they?

FWIW the first summer we had this dachshund - then about a year old - he killed two baby blackbirds. I think it was more that he started off investigating them rather than deliberately setting out to kill them but it was a shock because previous dog was so intolerant of birds that his barking gave even juveniles plenty of time to escape whereas this chap probably just ambled up quietly. Anyway, we made sure we went out in the garden with him for some time after and called him if he showed any interest in birds, and there's been no more incidents since.

So I think that there's a good chance you'll deal with this by vigilance to begin with coupled with training - the fact she came back twice when you called her off on the second occasion is encouraging.

What your puppy saw was an animated toy that made noise. The fact she killed the hen was just a by product.

xpost but that's a good description of what I think happened with mine and the poor little blackbirds.

Mine managed to kill and eat some baby rabbits earlier in the year. It was opportunistic and once she had them she was not letting them go so she gulped them down. It happened three times. She has not turned into a mental killer dog. The other day she chased a pheasant in the garden and had it pinned up against the fence but when i shouted to drop it she let it go.

Thank you for all your replies. I am in the middle of bedtimes here just now but shall come back and digest properly/look at the YouTube link later.

Of course you're right, she's not bred to kill but to carry - as I typed that I knew I was wrong but was rushing to post before dinner . And the animated toy example is so right.

Back later!

Blimey.

She is a labrador. They are bred to catch birds and carry them about. That's what your puppy has tried to do.

The instinct to do so has been carefully bred into labradors for years and years so you'll never manage to train it out of her, but you will be able to train her to be steady to birds/deer/bunnies/things that run about and are fluffy or feathery.

Although a dead hen is very distressing, it is not a major problem as described in your OP. You do not have a savage dog; simply one which has no self control - hardly surprising since she is so young.

Make sure you keep the hens shut up away from her. Don't set her or them up for a fall.

Spend some time training her and teach her what you expect of her with regard to birds. Take advantage of her willingness to come to you when you call her around the birds - it's a fabulous thing. She needs to learn that she is not to chase or catch birds/fluffy things unless you give her a command to do so.

Labs are bred to do exactly this, so she will learn easily. Put her on a lead and walk into the chickens - make sure she knows not to chase with whichever command you use to tell her to leave it. Keep doing it until she is no longer reactive. Then do it some more.

Mine will let a bunny do a dance in front of their feet if I haven't told them they can go after it. It is known as teaching 'steadiness'. It takes time, patience and consistency.

Incidentally. If your pup had eaten the insides of the chicken and taken off its head, I would expect to see evidence of blood on the dog - around its mouth and on its feet, feathers in it's teeth and a very runny bum/vomiting as she is so young. Did you see any of that?

Agree with everyone else. It's ever so upsetting when one pet kills another, but I doubt that was her deliberate intention. My spaniel caught one of my hens once. I was alerted to the squawking and ran around the corner to find him trotting around the garden with her in his mouth and every so often he threw her up over his head and caught her again. He was ever so pleased with his new 'toy'; the hen was much less impressed. I rescued her and she strutted off ruffling her feathers and throwing him evils I have no doubt that if he'd carried on with his game, she would have ended up dead. As it was, there wasn't a mark on her. I don't have my hens any more as I chose not to get more once they'd snuffed it. The spaniel's prey drive is very, very strong.

reading what daisy said - if you've no direct evidence that the first hen was killed by your pup, it could be that she found her way into the pen because she was following the scent of a fox I suppose? It doesn't really affect anything - either way you need to reinforce the pen and train the pup.

Thanks all. Daisy, your advice is very helpful, thank you. I do think it's a credit to her that she left no.2 hen alone when I called her away. And I agree about her willingness to train - she wants to learn and will do anything for a treat. It's getting the steadiness you describe which I didn't know how to approach but your advice is a great place to start. I don't think that we have a savage dog and my apologies if you got that impression from my OP - she's a baby who is growing up and did the wrong thing yesterday, that's all.

Snakey the scenario you described with your pup playing with the hen is exactly what I would have imagined our girl doing - if she did it, I am flabbergasted she did such a 'clean' job. TBH didn't look closely at her when we called her in - definitely no feathers around her mouth, those we would have noticed. Blood etc - no idea, she's black and it was a few hours later when we discovered what had happened. But .... I would have thought that if it was her, then she would have gone back to play with her 'prize' when I put her out for a run a little while later and she didn't, well not until late afternoon when I got her with the other hen. She did look a bit bloated and was unsettled last night with one or two sloppy poos.

Anyway, first job is to make safe the part of the garden in which the hens reside - the 'major' part of the problem given then layout of our land. Then it's onto training the pup.

Thanks again.