please help - I am so cast down

[lainiekazan]

Golden retriever aged 6 months. He has been a bit of a challenge, but things were really turning a corner: sleeping through the night, perfectly housetrained, responding very well to a wide range of commands.

But - about two weeks ago he started pulling on the lead - really pulling so that he won't walk on a loose lead for even two seconds. And in the last few days he has started leaping at the lead, becoming very agitated and angry and biting at me to wrench it away. He is quite big and very strong and I just can't manage him. Yesterday he just lay down on the pavement and we had stalemate for ten minutes. No treat will tempt him, no cajouling, angry voice, ignoring - nothing.

He has also started jumping up at passers by, which he never did before. As I said, he is so strong that it takes all my might to hold him back. I have been taking him out at 6.30am to try to avoid pedestrians. He's not too bothered about other dogs - just wants to leap on people.

I have employed all the training techniques recommended for loose lead walking - stopping if he pulls, turning round and walking the other way, etc. I am attending Kennel Club training classes but dog is by far the worst dog there and I'm just getting demoralised.

This morning we didn't even get to the end of the drive as he tried to yank the lead away and went absolutely berserk and knocked me over.

So now I daren't take him out. I just can't think how to move forward.

Two previous collies have got used to the halti after intial dislike - but the current pup (just over a year old) completely freaks with stuff around her face and neck. It took over a month to get her to accept a collar as a pup and even now she hates the lead being put on (fine once it is on). She knows it means a walk and gets excited but also runs away from the lead and hides.

Why do such intelligent dogs insist on pulling til they choke on a lead ? The pup will pull like a looney going away from home, but once we turn to come back invariably she stops pulling and walks beautifully !

Some dogs like the feel of a harness round them as it feels secure, much the same idea as a thundershirt.

Could you try both a halti and a harness in a shop before deciding? It would be quite easy to see which gave you the most control in a shop full of people

"He hasn't pulled since (three weeks) and is a pleasure to walk. But I'm not convinced it's not just because he isn't used to the sensation when he pulls, but over time, he will get used to it and will start pulling like a carthorse.

Are people saying that harnesses per se (even when they clip at the back) will permenantly stop a dog pulling?"

Mine can pull with his, he still does when there's something worth getting to (a dog usually) and got used to the different sensation within about half an hour, lol...but it does make it easier to work on it.

With a collar on his default setting is pulling, I might get a brief 2 second window to work with, with the harness while he might pull for a minute I then get 5 to work on training him to walk like a dog and not a carthorse.

So I'd say if it's been three weeks I don't think it's working because he isn't used to it.

"Could you try both a halti and a harness in a shop before deciding?"

Most dogs object to Haltis, ideally you want to train them to wear it happily before trying to walk with it.

So what would be best then?

Do haltis have those two leads I see people using? Don't those get tangled up?

I have a double ended lead for my harness, one end clips on the front and the other on my dogs back.

It's not my harness obvs

Haltis have a little strap that clips on to the collar, but I don't think it seems secure (I walk another dog with one, not mine) I had a different kind of head collar so I have a double ended lead with one side fastened to the headcollar and one to his actual collar.

It's in case it slips off.

If you look it's just one continuous lead.

It's useful anyway, because one end attached to a collar or harness gives a long enough lead to drop and stand on when they're trying to grab it or to stand on to practise not jumping up.

If you're just seeing which one gives you the most control then it doesn't matter if the dog likes it for the few minutes in a shop.

I didn't use 2 leads when using this halti although I see in the video for it you can. At £6 it's not a massive investment even if it doesn't work out for you.

Halti's are great for pavement walking or where you need close control. My ridgeback was a massive, powerful dog but even she couldn't pull when the lead was under her nose. She didn't particularly like it but it was essential for the 1st 18months and she just accepted that pavement walks meant the halti. She got plenty of off-lead too.

"If you're just seeing which one gives you the most control then it doesn't matter if the dog likes it for the few minutes in a shop."

It does if they just spend those few minutes trying to get it off was more why I was mentioning it. You can't really tell if that's what's happening.

They are pretty cheap though, so buying one to try it isn't too bad even if you end up not liking it.

If you like the headcollar type idea try a canny collar ,I don't use it much now as he has a Doxlock harness but when we were going down the headcollar route we tried a few and the canny was by far the best and also IMO the most secure as its basis is a normal collar . ( we also had a halti and a gentle leader)

we have a giant breed that are breed for pulling - a harness with the ring at the front didn't really work for us, but I haven't tried the brands mentioned above.
What does work is the dogmatic.

My golden lab hated the halti and because the lead came out the front she just grabbed it between her teeth and played tug of war. I walk mine on a slip lead. It sort of goes round her neck and over her nose in a figure of eight (it's hard to describe) . I also have a canny collar. She manages to bat the nose bit of both types of lead off using her paws. She is a bit of a pain in the ass to walk on lead, even though she is great in almost every other way.

All head collars have failed for us (very bouncy 11-month-old rescue) - she just paws at them until they come off. Harnesses were hopeless too, so walks on the lead were impossible for a while.

What has worked for us is working really hard on walking to heel in an empty field with the least distractions possible, after a good run around. After a week or two of that she appears to have got it.

(And it may not be optimum canine nutrition, but squeezy tubes of Primula are a good way of tempting her past driveways which might just contain a cat).

Not a problem lainiekazan. I currently have a 1 yr old, very powerful, bright young thing .... oddly the fact he's so smart made his pulling so very frustrating! Opinions on collars v harnesses (inc antipull ones) in these situations will always vary. I know lots of experienced owners/trainers in both camps. It comes down to what you feel most comfortable with. I was swayed by the opinion of the guy who (friend of a friend, lucky me!) trained the dogs in one of the batman movies! wow, he knew his stuff!! My vet who I admire greatly also shared this guys view.
But I will restate opinions of experts differ - passionately so. I'm not in the passionate camp, I'm in the make your own mind up camp. This is the way I have done it, so I suggest this way. Find what works for you, or rather what you feel is the way you can make work & stick with.

Also try to anticipate. My guy loves to chase pigeons, when I see them ahead if I can't detour then I give the command leave, few steps I repeat command very gentle & quiet then praise when we have successfully passed them by. From a 0% success rate we are now at 97%! As long as I'm on the ball! When we see other dogs I do the same but quite often I have to tell him to sit & wait for the other guy to pass. I keep him on my left with myself between him & the other dog/person. All dogs are play pals in his eyes. Lol

Oh I love the glasses stealing! Just the sort of thing my imp would do! Def teach him to play hide n seek, sounds like his sort of game! My boy loves his crate. It's the one command he always 100% obeys no matter what... even in a zoomie! Works everytime he trys a passive! As dies lets go see Archie, his doggy pal... sucker! Lol

Try not to let him get away with ignoring a command. Unless you are telling him off when you put him in the crate he will not see it as a place of punishment. Esp if you give a reward once he's in there. Look up NILIF k9deb.com/nilif.htm. Might be useful for you.

Yes, yes to squeeze cheese bribes! Peanut butter is also great ha ha! I use a 10m longline for 'off lead' training outside. Def start off low distraction, then build it up. Get kids to help out, riding past on bikes, chasing each other etc. Baby steps though.

I have just ordered a dogmatic after spending some hours on the internet...

There are just so many opinions but in the end I went for a quite pricey one that most reviewers said was comfortable and sturdy. I just know that dog would have a flimsier option off in 2 seconds flat.

Dog has not been good today. He has restarted jumping up and mouthing badly - about once an hour. Every time I initiate a bit of training/play he just goes insane and I have to stop. He is also desperate to play tug of war with a toy which I will not do. He gets so cross and bites at me to get me to play and won't be distracted into more gentle playing/training mode. Aaaaagggghhhh!!!!

Why not just play tug of war with him for a bit and then do some training ,he is only a baby .

Tug of war is a fab game as long as the dog has been taught the rules. A dog really doesn't care whether he wins or loses, it's the play he wants.

If he is on kibble it might be worth using a feeding toy or scatter feeding him in the garden, this occupies their brains which tires them out as much as physical exercise.

NILIF is something that those in the know are turning away from.

What is NILIF ?

Do you have an aversion to tug games? Gentle games are great, but NOTHING is better than tuggie to my pup. Even out and about, she will play and be distracted from stuff like other dogs/people by a good game of tug. Like yours, she is a Golden Retriever and about 8 months.
There is a load of nonsense paraded about tug games which may have made you wary but as long as you teach a drop command so you can control the game and don't let him win every time, you won't have any trouble

Dog training and books etc all say not to play tug of war. My head is bursting with conflicting theories!

Unfortunately dog is utterly hopeless at "leave". He gets every other command very well but has his ears firmly closed to giving up anything. He will "leave" for cheese, and cheese only, not for other treats, and then cannily places a big fat paw on whatever he's got to try to get the cheese and keep the toy/stolen item.

Haha cunning
Thing is, I don't get it. He will 'leave' for cheese but puts his paw on stuff? Then he doesn't get the cheese! No treat until the object is in your hand.

We taught drop during tug by simply keeping the toy passively in our hand. Even if it takes half an hour, he will get bored eventually! the very SECOND this happens, treat him and resume the game. Each time it will take him less time to give in, until the penny drops.

Good tip. I'll try that. Except dog has now gone to sleep with toy firmly wedged under paw. I tried to extract it, and an eye opened...