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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Original poster

My mastiff has mauled a small dog, I have a baby, my family want her to be pts. wwyd?

113 replies

bittenipples · 24/08/2013 19:06

I will try and keep this short whilst not drip feeding. Needless to say I am devastated.

Bull Mastiff rescue bitch - very dog aggresive, never shown any human aggresion. I got her when she was 6 from rescue, she had a bad fight when I slipped on ice and lost grip of the lead and since then she is not off the lead due to her bad dog aggression. I have worked with her intensly and trained her to be okay to walk past other dogs without too much tension, took 4 years but we got there!

We live in a flat, so as a holiday every 6 weeks or so she goes to my parents house in the country with huge garden so she can relax and wander off lead in a gated and fenced area. She must be about 9 now, no problems since I have been on top of her training and walks. She has bad hips and Cushings disease which we medicate but she still hates the stairs in the flat.

We have been at my parents for a week and having coffee outside when we hear the gate latch. The church warden has visited unannounced and walked in with her miniture breed. We did what we could but obviously my mastiff gets there first and mauled the dog. The dog is fine, thank god, after surgery but it was a close call - I am gutted. My family wont have her here again and think that she is a risk to my 10 mo son.

Yes she is a risk, but no more than she was 2 days ago. she has never shown human aggression, when we pinned her down to let go of the dog we really hurt her hips but she just howled but didnt harm us at all. I dont know what to do. Every one is saying to put her down, but I think this is unfair because a the dog walked into her territory. I know she is dog aggresive and i manage it. but do you thinbk she is a risk to my son in the flat? I keep them apart at all times, I will teach him to respect her space.

Sorry for the typos, very upset.

WWYD/

her quality of life will be diminished now she is not allowed back to my parents lovely garden and stuck going up and down the stairsand I can understand and respect thier desicon on that, but pts is a step too far or is it?

Help!

OP posts:
hellymelly · 25/08/2013 13:24

I agree with 34DD. I was about to post much the same when I read hers. I also think maybe with her hip issues 4 walks a day might be a bit much, two gentle ones might be better, she needs enough to keep mobile but not so much that it increases her pain.

everlong · 25/08/2013 13:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

differentnameforthis · 25/08/2013 13:43

She has NEVER been aggresive to any person

That you know of (i.e since having her, you don't know what happened prior to that).

But do you really want to take the risk with a baby? Yes, you keep them apart at all times, but it won't be long before your dc is on his feet & into everything.

I also think flat living for a dog is cruel, it is such a confined space & soon your dog will be sharing that space with a mobile child, which will be a new test!

hettienne · 25/08/2013 13:55

Even without the aggression issue, big dog, small flat, pain, struggles on the stairs, is never going to be able to go out off lead or unmuzzled again - that's not much of a life for the dog.

Quodlibet · 25/08/2013 14:09

I don't believe that the dog is any more risk to your son either - dog and people aggression are very different things as others have said.

Rather than posing yourself the question 'do I have to ihave the dog PTS now as a response to this incident', which I think is both an overreaction and a hugely emotive thing to do, I would be having a think about 'at what stage would I PTS as a result of the health issues'.

As others have said, your dog probably doesn't have more than a couple of years left at most. She is not rehomable. An elderly dog with arthritis can struggle on for a very long time and it is often a very difficult call knowing when enough is enough - I have had to make this decision and it is very hard to know as they have good and bad days.

I think you need to ask yourself how long you can maintain the dog's quality of life (with separating from a toddler responsibly being one big consideration) as reconcile yourself to PTS when you can no longer manage it. The dog has had a good innings, you have clearly cared for it immensely well and you should not feel wretched about letting her go when the time is right - better a month too early than a day too late.

NatashaBee · 25/08/2013 14:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

differentnameforthis · 25/08/2013 14:22

I don't believe that the dog is any more risk to your son either

The thing is, is that you just cannot know & it is the not knowing that is the crux of the matter, imo.

The dog is dog aggressive & after 4yrs of training (almost half of it's life & the entire time it has been with the op) nothing has changed, except that op can stop the dog actively going for a dog in an unprovoked situation, because it is muzzled & on a lead. But when provoked, (or not, because all the dog did was come on the property that the dog was on) it attacked without delay/hesitation.

I am not sure I would trust an aggressive dog to know the difference between a dog & a unstable toddling child, to be honest. It is a risk that I would not be willing to take, especially given the old age & relative lack of comfort that the dog lives in, that coupled with the lack of space & the inability to run off excess energy when it feels the need.

I do wonder how you got this passed the re-homing centre, don't they usually carry out home checks to make sure your home is suitable for a dog (because I don't believe a flat is at all suitable)

Your love (understandable) for this dog is clouding your judgement.

differentnameforthis · 25/08/2013 14:24

I do wonder how you got this passed by the re-homing centre

Original poster
bittenipples · 25/08/2013 16:27

Hi, Thanks such great advice, your posts are really helping me process my thoughts. I'm going to take her home on Tuesday and make a decision based on her health and welfare grounds and not her aggression grounds. I could live with that.

To those saying about how unsuitable a flat was for a big dog, I utterly agree. The rescue charity is not a well known one, and overwhelmed and in hindsight I think the home check should have been more rigorous. However, I did the best for her and she never lacked walks and live and meds.

I feel sorry for my mastiff girl as she never had a chance really, I guess from her health and behaviour problems that she probably came from a puppy farm, sold to someone who didn't socialise her and then got passed from pillar to post, ending up in rescues. I just wanted to give her a happy ending.

I will update you all after the vets

Thanks again for all your invaluable advice.

OP posts:
SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 25/08/2013 16:36

It sounds as if the best years of her life are the ones she has spent with you, Bittenipples, and you have clearly gone above and beyond to give her the best life possible. Sadly part of that loving care is having to make the decision to pts, when a beloved pet no longer has the quality of life they deserve.

I will be thinking of you as you face this decision.

NatashaBee · 25/08/2013 16:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
bittenipples · 25/08/2013 16:43

Sorry I just wanted to add that I've been looking at the Liam Perks Website about dog and child safety, I have to be honest and say that part of me has that nagging doubt.

I agree I have to realistic about how much longer I can manage the situation, what with an ever increasingly mobile baby and a decreasingly happy dog.

I have such a heavy heart. I will try and give her the best qol whilst keeping my ds safe until the time comes.

OP posts:
Original poster
bittenipples · 25/08/2013 16:45

Thanks STD and NatashaBee

OP posts:
MissAntithetic · 25/08/2013 17:01

Heart breaking decision.

Fwiw as a dog lover who had a similar type of dog I would PTS soon. Her health is going to get worse, that will make her unpredictable not to mention the logistics of managing her in a flat with stairs.

I don't think she can be blamed too much for the dog attack. She was in her own garden you couldn't have forseen that situation.

But whatever you decide rest assured you gave that dog the best years of its life.

prissyenglisharriviste · 25/08/2013 17:20

I was supervising 6 yos going door to door selling girl guide cookies. In our village you go through people's gates to get to their doors. One of our 6yos went through a gate (there were two people watching us from the garden) and was immediately attacked by a bull mastiff who launched from the porch and jumped for her throat. Fortunately she put her arm up in time. The owners blamed the 6yo for entering their property (a little like the poor visiting church warden) but had no warning signs up etc. this dog was ' only' dog aggressive too.

I have always had dogs and children. (We had a dog when I was pg with our first). Rescue dogs too. But not aggressive, whether dog or human.

I'm afraid in this instance, I would not be keeping the dog. Older dogs with worsening health issues who already exhibit aggression don't deserve to be kept with small animals who are likely to lean on them to push to stand, invade their space, etc etc. and I say the dog doesn't deserve that level of inadvertent taunting. Who would blame the dog for retaliating? It wouldn't be either the dog or the soon to be toddler's fault.

chloeb2002 · 25/08/2013 18:09

I can sympathise with how hard your situation is. We recently had our old girl pts. She was 11. The hardest decision ever as we did it to protect out children from her. She was suffering from "doggy dementia". The fear that at some point she would snap at one of the kids was just too great a risk. I felt that it would ruin so many good memories and end her life on a sour note if we waited to see what may happen.

Floralnomad · 25/08/2013 20:51

bitten if I recall you posted recently about your concerns about your dogs QOL , I think deep down you knew you had an untenable situation before this latest incident . You have looked after and loved this dog so please don't feel bad about the decision you make as whatever you decide to do it will be in the best interests of all of you .

Original poster
bittenipples · 25/08/2013 21:28

Flora yes you're right I did. Thanks for reminding me, that is true I did have concerns about her qol at my flat before.

It sounds from my posts that I didn't think through getting her in the first place, and I really did. I thought I was going to move before she got old and the circumstance changed, my plan B was that when the stairs to my flat got too much she could retire to my parents farm which she really loved. Unfortunately it's not an option now.

Thanks for everyone's posts. I'll let you know what happens.

OP posts:
QOD · 25/08/2013 21:45

When your DS gets mobile, he could be more of a "threat" perhaps?

TotallyBursar · 25/08/2013 22:31

Bitten in cases where it's not clear cut the option to PTS is always based on checks and balances. It's always hard.

I don't judge you for the choices you've made, you've done the best for her you could in all ways and life gets in the way of our plans. You have given her love and the chance of a happy life that was denied her before. Yes you live in a flat but have made sure her welfare was paramount, invested time, money and care in treating her health and behaviour issues. Don't let recent events cloud that from your thoughts.

But now she needs you to make the call for her. You have good memories of a dog you love and neither of you owe anyone anything. Her health is the key factor for me and I think it is legitimate to say goodbye before pain and suffering forces your hand in any of the ways it could.
I know how heavy a burden to carry it is and I know this sounds cheesy but our final act of love for them is the price we pay, the more you love them the higher it is. But we pay it always one way or another. This does right by her and your son.
I'm thinking of you Thanks

primroseyellow · 25/08/2013 22:49

Once again I do not understand why people with children or who intend to have children get rescue dogs and as for getting one when you live in a flat which is unsuitable for a dog....
I think your family are right. Just think how you would feel if something went wrong and your baby ended up in the position the small dog was in....not worth the risk.
And IMO it is not realistic to suggest rehoming a dog with this trait.

portraitoftheartist · 26/08/2013 20:16

Your dog is old and ill and has no quality of life, living in a flat and struggling with the stairs and never again running freely.
Send her off to doggy heaven before she injures another dog or your baby.

GoshAnneGorilla · 27/08/2013 01:36

Hmm at the people who are so very sure that dog aggression is so different to human aggression. Who would want to take the risk? In child safety vs dog, the child should always be paramount.

9 years is a good innings for many bigger dog breeds and I would not take the risk of such a temperament around my child. PTS is the best option.

Fumbled · 27/08/2013 02:06

Quality of life is probably what you need to look at.

Dog aggression IS different to aggression to humans, dogs can find toddlers harder to live with than babies but their response to another dog tells you nothing about their reactions to toddlers. All dog owners should be especially careful of the crawling and early years stage, dog behaviour towards other dogs predicts nothing for this issue. To suggest otherwise shows a real lack of understanding about dog behaviours.

All dog owners should have 'that nagging doubt' to some extent because it a only as your child grows you can see your dog's response to them and see how best to manage the home environment.

One of mine at the moment would kill any strange dog he could reach, he is eleven stone and six foot. He is fantastic with all four of my children, bomb proof in the home. He is a rescue who hasn't ever even got a mouthful of fur in the years I have owned him. The logistics of home and out and about can be managed but quality of life is harder to asses, yours will get less mobile, be impossible to rehome and will rapidly age at this point. She also has been loved and looked after ...not many would have done this. The mauling whilst awful isn't anything different to what you knew might happen, you have the same decisions you had before it happened.

LeoandBoosmum · 27/08/2013 02:47

I've not read the whole thread BUT dog to dog aggression is completely different from dog to person aggression. Personally,I would not get the dog pts. I would be extra careful though (never leave dog alone with others, muzzle in public, keep on lead etc). I'm glad the other dog is okay... Did its owner not see your dog? I always check before I just take our dogs onto a property where I can see another dog.