Puggle!

[AngryBeaver]

We're bringing home a Puggle (hopefully) boy in December.
I live in NZ and this is the first litter of Puggles here, which is quite exciting.
This is our first dog.
We have to do lots of research between now and then on things like toilet training ( thing that worries me most) and i also worry abut letting it off the lead and it running away.

(I actually live in a small Island in the Hauraki Gulf, so it couldn't actually LEAVE, but other dangers)

Oh, have just thought of something else to worry about..the sea!
Obviously we're surrounded by water, so walks on the beach will be frequent...what if it runs into the surf and gets washed away?!!

Anyway, any tips, advice, experience, will be much appreciated.

I would be really wary of a 'KC' registered breeder who thinks it's a good idea to put a pug with a beagle, especially given the health issues pugs already have. Ethical breeders only breed a litter to improve the lines they've got, carefully choosing sires/dams to eliminate health problems or physical flaws in the breed. (too many breeds there, sorry!) They wouldn't use a dubious sire of the same type, let alone a totally different kind of dog - I doubt the NZKC would be that impressed either.

Pugs are lovely. Beagles are lovely (if hard work!). Why not get a pug or a beagle from a breeder who's committed to producing the best possible healthy puppies in each?

I hear you.
But this lady has 30 years experience in breeding both types of dogs and is very well respected.
She has show dogs.

I also spoke to someone from NZKC and someone who works with guide dogs and they were pretty positive about it.

They just said lots of dogs with potential health problems ( GSD for example) so you could get a pedigree could have some or non of those problems?

And that all dogs were crossed at some stage and that the Puggle will be a breed in its own right one day too.

I have spoken to a breeder in Aus, who I told of my concerns and she says non of hers (4) have any problems and non of the dogs she's sold have.
They all have longer snouts.

2 of hers are stubborn, and two are not.
But she said it just comes down to perseverance with the training.

She has the Puggles Australia fb page.

All the dogs on there are healthy.

I won't pretend I'm not a bit worried now though!

To repeat what has already been said, the 'Puggle' will never be a breed. These are first crosses, Pug with Beagle. They would have to be bred puggle to puggle for many generations, establishing a definite type to be anywhere near becoming a breed. But this isn't the breeders' of these type of crosses goal. Money is their only motivation.

If the breeder is an established one of both breeds. What possible reason does s/he have for crossing them? Other than financial gain, of course. Absolutely no reputable breeder who truly loves and respects a breed will deliberately cross breed. Ever.

Even the originator of the Labradoodle who bred them as an experiment (which failed) as guide dogs for people with allergies has gone on record to say that he regrets what he did and the repercussions of it and the disastrous consequences for the millions of deliberate crossbreeds that his work inspired.

What's wrong with the Labradoodle? ( quite genuinely asking!)

Well, I think that the breeder loves her Pugs, she loves her Beagles (which she gets money from selling!) and now she will love Puggles (which she wil get money for)

She sells dogs for a living?!

I don't see the difference!

But, under no illusion that she loves all her dogs.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm really not.

I just can't see the difference.

Breeders make a living from selling dogs.

Um, no they don't - breeding dogs properly is an expensive hobby.

breeding a dog responsibly isn't just a case of sticking two nice looking animals together. Committed breeders look at the whole pedigree of their bitch going several generations back; they know from experience and research what flaws there are in the various lines in the pedigree, and try choose a sire that has complementary or corrective traits to balance out any flaws in the mother. Their aim isn't just to pop out a litter of 10 x £800 puppies, it's to create the healthiest, best puppy of its type. A good beagle breeder wouldn't even consider mating her champion bitch with a sire that had wonky ears, say, let alone with a totally different dog with its own well-documented health issues.

None of the breeders I'd buy a puppy from ever make more than a few pounds from their litters, after deducting the cost of medical care for the mother, vaccinations, scans, food, puppy food - they're not doing it to make money, but because they're passionate about the breed, and want the best possible example to show and own themselves. This breeder might well love her dogs, but I honestly can't understand why any sensible owner would want to risk inflicting pug breathing issues on a high energy scenthound, and vice versa.

Puppy farmers, however, make a stack of cash. That's because they'll breed a bitch season on season till she's exhausted, don't care about what they mate her with as long as it makes a cute name, and barely care for the puppies once they're born.

I don't mean to sound preachy but please think really carefully about this. Have you met any actual beagles, or actual pugs? They're two adorable dogs, but they're very different, and have very different needs. All puppies are cute, but it's going to grow up in about six months, and you're left with a crossbreed that may well have a lot of expensive medical issues that you can't predict in the same way you can with a dog of one particular type.

"after deducting the cost of medical care for the mother, vaccinations, scans, food, puppy food"

Not forgetting health tests, some of which are only valid for a year, Stud fees and travel (the chances of a breeder having an in house stud that complements their bitch are very very slim, good breeders pick other studs to get the best genes possible) pre-mating blood tests and check ups, worming, whelping boxes, puppy pens and rolls of vet bed, supplements, milk (it's the quickest way of getting extra calories into a bitch and puppies) puppy packs for each of the puppies...

And that's assuming nothing actually goes wrong, that there's no emergency c-sections or postpartum infections or things like mastitis and that all the puppies arrive healthy.

Good breeders don't make much money at all, if any, they're doing it to get a puppy themselves which is what makes it worth it - not to make money, because to make money you need to cut corners on something else.

(pugoff sorry, that came out a bit unintentionally anti-pug - they're lovely dogs! The most glamorous dog I've ever met was a pug. She's like a film star in a small dog's body.)

Don't worry about grumpy purists on here. I have a cavapoo. Hardly dare mention her on here but she is the sweetest and hardiest little dog around. Came from a great home and is perfect for our family.

Mixing up a needy, wants to follow you everywhere, cuddly type dog with an intelligent working dog that had a purpose and strong scent skills could be a.....challenge (or wonderful) Have you met my jugdog?? That's him to a tee and he's fab

[He's also so cute I could eat him up*]

*obviously not actually eat him, euw

It's not about being a purist - most of the dogs I've owned I haven't even had a clue what crosses they were, they were brilliant dogs, most dogs are.

It's about whether people are breeding incompatible crosses on purpose, cutting corners on care and calling them a cute name to make money from them.

I am currently looking after my brothers 7 month old puggle, and while she is very cute and generally no problems health wise etc, a few things I will point out, however bear in mind I'm no expert - I know nothing about pugs or beagles as a breed particularly!
She is the greediest dog I have ever known - according to my brother both beagles and pugs are super greedy but she is just on another level. She can sniff out any form of food no matter how far away and will stop at nothing to get it. Not just food either, she eats manure, dog poo, feathers, sand, leaves etc too)
She jumps incredibly high (we have had to put an extension on our fence while she's staying with us as she would have been able to jump over and escape!) She is very energetic and although she's quite small needs 2 long walks a day.
She also has some bladder problems, she wees when anyone strokes/fusses her or when she's scared/being told off.
I don't think this is anything to do with the breed though.

All in all I'm not a huge fan of her (Looking forward to my brother picking her up tomorrow!) - she's a lot of hard work and very demanding compared to my own dog (mini schnauzer) was at the same age.
Plus points are she is great around kids - barks and howls at any other dogs she sees though and runs up to them in the park.
She has been very easy to train and learned lots of commands and tricks quickly.

It does make you wonder about the NZKC if they're telling people that the Puggle will be a 'breed' ! Whatever way you look at it the 'designer' cross breeds are purely bred for money ,that's not to say they are not lovely dogs but they are simply a money making venture .