Help! 5-month old dog difficulties!

[lainiekazan]

I have found my golden retriever quite a challenge, but I'm hanging on in there.

But... he wakes every three hours during the night. I have tried taking his water away at 6pm, but still he needs to go out to the loo. He is in a crate. I can't leave him to bark because a)dh has stressful job b)dcs usually at school and c) vile neighbour would complain (he threatened to call the police when ds had a party - a Star Wars party for his 8th birthday...) I am delirious with tiredness after 3 months of this.

He still bites. His adult teeth are now coming in and his bites hurt. Every so often he seems to go into a trance and leap at us and snarl and bite. Dd is particularly a target, and she gets hysterical which incites him all the more. He goes into "time out" when this happens, but I wish it wouldn't happen in the first place.

And how do you know when you can let them off lead? Dog is pretty good at "Come!" in the garden, but how do you know when you can trust them? A park is obviously infinitely more exciting than the garden and I can't see myself ever feeling confident enough in his recall to go for it.

I am sorry that you are having such a tough time, puppies are bloody hard work aren't they? I think people 'gloss' over the reality when broodiness kicks in and they are desperate for a dog. When you are tired life is shit too.

I am honestly no expert and our puppy has been easy in reality as he's so mellow (a broken Springer!), but I wonder if your dogs excitement and lack of tiredness is because he needs to be let off lead?

Can you find a quiet field, early in the morning and just do it? I don't mean a busy park etc but somewhere 'safe'. Our breeder was of the opinion that you should let them off on their first walk out, when they are too scared to do anything but follow you, we took this advice and he always comes back.

We have trained the coming back with distraction though, lots of fun recall games in the garden between the DC, I make myself very exciting by having a happy voice and lots of liver!! Sometime call him back but them treat and just let him on his way.

I click and treat just when he's near me in the kitchen, so he thinks being near me is the bestest place in the world.

Train 'watch me' (usually I do this with a sit') as distractions increase so he ignores the distraction and has his focus on you.

I take him to a mega busy park once a week to reinforce (well, during term time anyway), places where there are pushchairs, joggers, kids, dogs, play parks etc.

Other more experienced folk will come along I am sure, I may not be on the right track.

The only way you are going to stop him needing to go in the night is to leave him to bark ,if he knows that barking gets him what he wants then that is what he will do . IMO you should not be taking his water away ,especially that early in the evening . With the recall you need to get a long line ( not extender lead) and practice in the park with it , there have been lots of threads on here about recall training which you can search for . IMO the earlier you let them off the better but you have already missed that boat .As for the biting I'd get a behaviourist in to observe him / film his behaviour to show them as this does seem to have been an issue for you since he was a tiny puppy . Personally I think he sounds like a fairly average pup and maybe its your expectations about his behaviour that are the issue but then I don't live with him .

I know exactly what you're going through. My golden is 15 months now but I can still remember crying a few times at the start not realising how hard it was going to be.

I agree with Flora that you're going to have to let him bark for a night or two. My boy used to do this (except it was a whine) and he'd just want to play when he went out. It took a week for him to learn that whining wasn't going to get him anywhere and he stopped.

The biting - I know it sounds bonkers but it actually hurts less when their adult teeth come in - their less needle like. Obviously it's better to stop the behaviour though. What we did, if he started inside, he went in time out (we put him in the kitchen for a minute on his own) if he did it outside we crossed our arms and turned our backs.

Recall I can't help with. Our boy is too friendly to trust off the lead. Although he's pretty good in fields where there's no one else around but he got out the gate on Monday and no amount of calling was going to bring him back.

Sorry you're having such a hard time. My pup's 4 1/2 months and was very fearful when he arrived, but is just starting to come out of his shell, which means the teeth are coming out. I would suggest encouraging him to play with a toy - tug ropes or kongs or sacrificial fluffy toys; things he can get his teeth into. Give lots of praise (and treats if he's food oriented) for playing with you and the toy. If he gets you with his teeth then stand up and turn your back, arms folded until he's settled. i.e. no play/treat reward. Once this works with you and the puppy, then you can start getting your DC involved in doing the same. He should be more used to it then and it should be easier for them.

I crate my puppy over night. He goes out for a last wee at 10ish, then he goes in his crate and stays there until I take him out in the morning. We had a few accidents at first, but then he got it. I think you'll have to try to ignore the barking at first. Is there anywhere you could put him so it's harder for the neighbour/sleeping DH+DC to hear? Also; make sure you've covered 3 sides of the crate plus the top; it'll be more den-like for him, and might muffle the sound a bit. I don't leave water in the crate over night, but I wouldn't cut it off as early as 6pm. Now he's older his bladder should be able to cope over night.

Buy a long lead and start taking him out to fields then swapping the regular lead for the long lead and let him wander further away, then call him back and treat/praise his return. This gets him used to going further away so when you do let him off lead it won't be a sudden, wonderful thing. If you're walking with other dogwalkers and their dogs are off lead then that will help - I've let my pup off once and that was with my father's dogs. Pup stuck to the older dogs, taking his cues from them. If you don't have other dogs to walk with, then stick to the long lead. Once you're happy he'll recall from all manner of distractions, then you can start letting him off lead during quiet walks, Build up slowly if you're nervous - the more confident you are, and the more happy and encouraging noises you can make, the more rewarding you will be over any distraction.

It's not easy, this puppy-raising-lark, but you sound determined, so just keep going, make a few little changes and it'll get easier.

I meant to say that when my puppy bites I've taken to saying a single firm 'No' before stopping the game; not shouting or squealing, just a 'No'. I'm not sure if it works with dogs, but it's how I've nip-trained my ferrets (ferret kits are toothy little buggers) so it just seemed sensible to do it with pup.

Also if he's too over-excited and the back-turning doesn't work then you could try leaving the room (preferably through a baby gate to somewhere where he can't follow) so you're clearly associating biting with the removal of the fun human beings. This just came to mind because it doesn't make sense to me for a crate to be a time-out zone as well as a safe place and a comfortable bed; also it's easier to implement as there's no wrestling to move pup to the crate/kitchen/wherever.

Thanks for those tips. I shall get a long lead. That's a good idea about going with other dog walkers. I hope I can find some! I'm discovering that dog walking groups are much like book groups: no new members welcome! (Or it may be just me...)

I guess I'lll have to go for it with the barking. He is going into kennels in two weeks' time for a couple of weeks, and I am hopeful that he will learn to tow the line there. He was supposed to be going back to the breeder, but she rang and said she had hurt her arm and couldn't have him after all .

I can't help thinking I've done so much wrong in the first couple of months. All the books make it all sound so easy and I've not found one that deals in any depth with unwanted behaviours.

How much exercise does he have?
What and when do you feed him?
What do you do when he bites and nips?
What do you do when he barks in the night?

I've been walking my dog for 3 years and apart from people I already knew its taken me until this year to meet a few people to walk with ,so don't take it personally . Having said that I like walking on my own as my dog doesn't really 'get' dogs .

We have quite a large garden so he roams/runs around there quite a bit. He has a "formal" walk once a day, following the "rule" of 5 minutes per month, so 20 minutes max. I can't help thinking he would like to go out more often, though.

He has Royal Canin puppy food at 8am, 12 and 6pm.

When he bites and nips I grab his house line and haul him outside. Dd shrieks and leaps around. He started without warning this evening and bit dd on the wrist. It's not even really play biting. As I said earlier, his eyes glaze over, trance-like, and he repeatedly jumps and bites and won't be distracted by food/toys.

In the night I get up, let dog out without eye contact and herd him back into crate immediately. At 4.30 or 5 he barges past and makes straight for the kitchen for his morning milk

I'm no expert but I though the 5 minute a month thing had been discounted, I think he needs more and better quality exercise ,roaming round the garden is nothing like going out for a walk . You need to just ignore overnight and persist with removing him if he bites ,don't bother with trying to distract him . Your children do need to stop screaming though as that will just wind him up .

"In the night I get up, let dog out without eye contact and herd him back into crate immediately. At 4.30 or 5 he barges past and makes straight for the kitchen for his morning milk "

Sounds like he is getting his own way a bit tbh! Put a collar on him and take him back when he does this. You have to be the one who decides when it's time to get up, not him!
And milk?? Not recommended for dogs, assuming you mean cows milk?

Goat's milk. He absolutely loves it. Sits and points his nose at the fridge at 5am.

Fair enough then, but YOU get to decide what time, not him. I'm presuming you don't actually WANT to be feeding it to him at that time?

I would change the food Royal Canin is a poor quality kibble.

Do not give goats milk at 5am ever

He does need more stimulation and exercise. He can have two 20 mins sessions easily each day. He needs training sessions, clicker is good for this it is calming and tires out dogs really well. You can click and reward for just being calm and lying still for example.

I would not be leaving a 5 month to roam on his own in the garden.

When he bites and nips try to remove the children quietly and slowly and Ignore him. No eye contact, no words just slow down and move to another room.

Is he crated? I would not go down to him when he barks (but I do understand the problem with your neighbour)

Have you got a local trainer you could contact to give you a one to one to help you get a plan in place to help you over this stage

Why can't he roam in the garden? Too late now. He loves the garden - digging holes, bit of a wander, 10 zooming laps before bedtime...

Too much time to do as he pleases unsupervised is not ideal. He is learning to make his own entertainment and will inevitably choose inappropriate or even dangerous things to do.
Also the more he becomes self sufficient in entertaining himself, the less important you are to him, which leads to issues with training and harms his bond with you.
It is very much NOT too late. Easy to change

He is starting Kennel Club training in September. We attended a training course for six weeks recently but it was a bit... wimpy and I came to realise that the philosophy of dog as your friend is flawed, in just the same way as parents who reason with their children find too late they've bred bullying tyrants.

My dog is my friend ,what was your issue with it ?

The tone of your last post makes me think you feel you should dominate your dog. It's an incredibly outdated and flawed way of dealing with dogs, and one which is unlikely to be given any credence by the new training centre, unless it is spectacularly crap.
You acknowledge that you do not have a great deal of personal knowledge, so I would politely suggest you keep an open mind as to training techniques.
An excellent online resource is the range of free tutorials on you tube by 'kikopup'. Watch some of them and try out the step by step methods. They work!

My golden lab was a bit of a nightmare at that age and I recall counting down the days until she was 6 months and could start training classes. We have not looked back. At 15 months she is far from perfect but she stays in her crate all night ( 10 pm to somewhere between 6/7 am but we are early risers in our family ) We feed her at times set by us even though she gives very clear sings she would like to be fed NOW!! She virtually never nips unless she has been overstimulated by something. Her recall has improved hugely and she will (mostly) come back when called. It is like having a different dog. Persevere and you will get there

Well... I am my dogs friend but I set the rules too iyswim? (not in any dominating/pack leader way)

We also did a 'pre training' class, before starting the Bronze award and actually found that, although we had clicker trained most of the basics anyway, the trainer had some great and very specific suggestions and was more than willing to share his vast knowledge (particularly in our case 'sniffing' on the lead, being a Springer, walking to heel is extremely tough as they have their noses to the ground sniffing 99% of the time, but we've got there with help!)

Do you have any brain training toys? Obviously we have Kongs, but our puppy isn't all that interested in these tbh. We have a rubber ball which you can fill with kibble for meal times, they have to figure out how to get the food out. We have a 'tug a jug' which is very very hard and our puppy gets quite cross! I also put treats into cardboard boxes and fasten back up, which keep him occupied. Bones etc

I don't do all these things every day, I don't have time but, combined with training, they can wear your dog out mentally, no amount of physical exercise can wear a Springer out I am finding so the mental stuff is great.

I also wonder if he's been allowed too much freedom in the garden to do as he pleases?

I don't mean this in an outdated way, but everything we do with our dog that's 'valuable', is done on our terms, not his if that helps?

I honestly think that further mental stimulation and physical exercise will help!

Of course I don't dominate him - if anything it's the other way round !

But in order to grow up with good manners a dog needs to learn the rules, just the same as children do.

I spent a good hour with dog this morning playing games and he loved it. When he started nipping I shut myself behind stair gate pronto (albeit leaving a piece of dressing gown behind).

It's very much like having children btw, I think - they're not equals...not because of dominance theory, but because you're in charge. (though once they know how to behave it gets a bit more equal)

I don't see any problem with letting him play in the garden - unless he's literally spending hours out there unsupervised or you're unhappy with what he's doing in the garden.

The 5 minutes rule...well firstly he's 5 months so you get 25 minutes, it's not a strict rule, if you go a bit over he'll be fine, if he's offlead snuffling about that doesn't count. It's enforced exercise, anything he can't or won't stop doing through choice and it's to do with building up muscles slowly and steadily to support joints, so there's no reason at all not to give him multiple walks as long as none of them are really long ones. (I have to give my dog lots of little walks because he has a joint problem, little and often doesn't allow the muscles to get too tired to support joints)

If you're worried about recall get a long line and practise it. (I know it's already been said)

Training now pays off massively, the more you can fit in the better and it'll help with the biting if you can actually give him something else to do rather than just expecting him to stop if you see what I mean...basically like suggesting an activity to a toddler who is doing something you don't want rather than just telling them to stop doing what they're doing.

Another thing to consider based on your last post...an hour is a fairly long time to be playing without a puppy getting overexcited, little and often is better...they get overstimulated and also overtired - again, like toddlers and that's when they commonly get bitey.

Basically, puppies are like furry toddlers, only instead of all the things a toddler does, they use teeth, when they're too excited, too tired, grumpy, happy, bored, anything else, lol. Except, they're so much easier to train than toddlers.

The barking at night, really you need to either ignore it or if that isn't an option then rethink your sleeping arrangements either with a view to gradually retraining him or just so that it's no longer an issue.

With children who puppies are jumping up at and biting I encourage them to act like soldiers hand dead still down sides feet together head up still with back to puppy so the child is very boring. Pulling at the house line may suggest to him that it maybe starting a game.
Very recently I attended a veterinary orthopaedics course where one of the very top orthopaedic vets in the UK basically said the 5 minute rule is a load of tosh, there are studies that prove it is tosh. Dogs being overweight and genetics are the most important issues with joints.
Goats milk immunologically no different to cows milk really good for young goats unnecessary for young dogs.
As others have said pup will never go any longer in the night unless he has too. Could you try teaching a settle command during the day, that you can then use at night? Then gradual build up the times between when he goes out using the settle command in between.

What did they actually do on the course though that you disagreed with ?