Lead training questions

[lecce]

I am trying to do this with our new puppy having just 'got by' with our previous dogs - I would like to do things properly with this dog since we have got her from puppyhood.

My problem is that we (the dog and I) both find it so frustrating. Although she is okish on paths and pavements - needing to stop and be guided back every 10 paces or so, when we get to the grass (where she would be off the lead if she was older and trained) it goes all over the place. She is so distracted by everything she sees and hears and we are having to stop every step, nearly. This causes her to start whining and a couple of times she has lied down! It feels like she is so distracted that she is not able to learn anything, iyswim, so it feels almost counter-productive to be doing it. I feel guilty as it feels like I am spoiling her walk - though I know she is going to be quite big and it needs to be done. It is also harder there because it is not somewhere where you would walk in a straight line, so I don't have a clear sense of where I want her to go.

So do I need to be zero-tolerance with this, or can be have parts of the walk where I am more easy-going?

How old is she?
Also training should be kept short and sweet - reminding her about walking and stopping nicely, after you've put fundamentals in place.
Not having a clear idea what you need from her, using her whole walk to try and train her and not letting her explore her environment is asking a lot from a baby. The more you push her into boredom the less appealing you and your training will be.

You can use her excitement as a reward and keep your goals well defined and achieveable for her. If you set yourself up as the reason she isn't getting to play or sniff recall will be a bugger because you are the least appealing thing around. A lot of set up for good walks and recall is done at home with bonding and listening exercises so she wants to be with you and enjoys working with you.

Also what do you mean by all over the place? She isn't keeping to heel all the time? Or goes a bit giddy and bouncy?

I have a very similar problem - a 9-month-old rescue puppy we've had about 4 months now, lead training has not gone well at all. She CAN walk to heel, but it's hard work (for her and for me) - yet as soon as I relax the training she is straining at the lead, scrabbling along the ground and half strangling herself, it's impossible to walk her at all. I use a gentle leader but she also manages to pull on that.

On top of that, I can't really let her off the lead (recall training also progressing slowly - ok with few/no distractions, but bolts as soon as she sees a bird/dog/rabbit), so I'm pretty stuck at the moment. We are doing training classes which are helping but only slowly.

She gets plenty of attention and training every day - I know more exercise would probably calm her down, but it's how to give her that exercise!

Have you looked at Kikopup, Ahimsa training or Turid Rugaas on YouTube?

It's a lot easier now you can see it!
Have a look at those videos, there is a huge collection that encompasses everything from day dot - if you have problem behaviours it's slightly different but Kikopup is one I know has good explanatory videos that are really clear about the concept so help to generalise what you are doing and apply it to other training situations.

I would step back and do some solid listening work at home. Then start again with the lead training with a more defined plan in place, keeping it short and sweet. Teens get giddy but will respond with consistent approaches. Even recall!

poppy77 - I'm in the same position. Adopted a second dog last week, an 8 month old rescue GSD X. High energy dog, used to running about in fields all day. Will walk OK for short lead walks but needs a lot more exercise than that. We've been driving to a place that's safe for off lead running about so he can burn off a bit of energy first, then I do short bursts of heel training. I found that if we keep going to the same place his level of excitement isn't so high and he takes more notice of me.

I have looked at Kikopup and Ahimsa but not the other one so I will look for that one. Although I think one of the problems is that I just need to find one approach and stick to it!

Thanks for your help, she is actually a lovely dog at home, it's just the minute the front door opens that it all goes wrong! And of course all other dog owners appear to have perfectly trained dogs and look at me as if I'm doing it all wrong, which doesn't help.

And sorry for the hijack OP, I hope your dog improves too!

They are both the same idea and Turid expands on our job to see what the dogs telling us etc.

But yes however you combine your systems or ideas you have to be consistent. If you don't know how you want to work your dog will have to guess, most dogs have actually done quite a lot of that and get there eventually. But it's frustrating for both of you.
You don't have to use a clicker, I don't, but you have to decide & stick with it.
What don't you like about Kikopup/PRT?

Oh it's not that I don't like them - I think I've just got frustrated when it's become apparent that they aren't going to produce results any time soon, and I go back to hoping that one day she'll grow out of it and it will all just come together. I have used a clicker successfully but I suffer from the 'not enough hands' problem - again, I just need to try harder really.

At training classes they seem to think that holding a treat in front of their nose will work - and it does while she's hungry and the treat is good enough, but normal kibble doesn't cut it and she gets full quickly with high-quality treats. I have tried stopping every time she pulls/walking in the other direction, but she seems to regard bouncing backwards and fowards as a fun game which just rewards the behaviour, plus she pulls SO much that I get very sore arms and very dizzy and go absolutely nowhere.

How long would you expect it to take for a high-drive 9-month-old to get to the point where they can reliably walk well on a lead in pretty much all situations using one of these methods? I can put in a couple of hours of training most days.

poppy77 - TBH I'd do something about getting more off lead exercise...either find somewhere secure, or use a long line and harness.

That way you're burning off some energy and there's a clear difference between on lead and off lead - which should make it a bit easier.

It's much easier to do ten minutes of lead training, then have a good old run around and sniff and then ten more minutes of lead training and slowly build up the the time than it is to just be doing lead training all the time. Personally I think if they're always on lead then you're trying to do the equivalent of a half hour stay without having built up to it - it's totally natural to get distracted, try to get to something and that's it training session blown.

lecce - how old is your puppy? Because if she's little, I'd let her off now - teaching her recall now while she still wants to follow you will pay off no end when she's older, I mean, yes it will still need training, but waiting until she's older means she's more likely to just go - woohoo, freedom! and do whatever she wants.

That sounds like a better idea actually, I hadn't really thought to combine off the lead/on the lead training.

Sorry you are having the same problem thegriffon! I think you're right about sticking to the same place too - unfortunately there's no secure spaces I can let her off around here, but there are a few places which are pretty empty and distraction free. She is with a dog sitter for a few days the week after this one, so I will have to decide whether it's worth starting before we go or not.