Breeder - is this normal?

[Feathered]

I have never been to a breeder before but just wondered if my experience is normal - because if it is there is no way I'm getting a dog. This breeder was advertised on a respected breed site and had a good history of breeding and winning shows according to her website.

1 - The house was filthy and smelled strongly of dog
2 - the dogs were all kept outside in kennels. These were not obviously dirty but there was a strong unpleasant odour. The house was dirtier than the kennels - I'm pretty sure the dogs would normally be in the house but this was unclear.

1. The puppies were in a concrete run. Bundling about fairly happily I think. There didn't seem to be anywhere soft for them to lie down.

The adult dogs looked in good condition (although they were extremely boisterous - again I don't know if that is normal)

My first question (apart from is this normal) is that do breeders homes smell? I'm put off getting a dog by the repulsive smell.
My second is should I report this? I felt so sorry for this woman's neighbours as well as the dogs.

I've no experience of dog breeders ( ours is from Battersea) but when my mum got her Ragdoll cat both the breeders we looked at lived in what I would consider to be grubby ,smelly houses ,but the cats were mainly inside and everywhere so probably to be expected.

Yuck! Maybe I'm just snooty.

Ours wasn't anything like that at all. She did have a pen and kennel outside so the adult dogs could be left secured outside but dogs were in and out and puppies in a pen. Her house was clean and normal.

She only bred on a small scale though, one litter every couple of years. I suspect it would be different if greater numbers of dogs and breeding more often.

Particularly in this heat then a certain amount of doggy smell is to be accepted. A filthy house is their choice. However if puppies are out in a run the how do they get adequate socialisation?
Personally I go on whether I like the breeder and how they answer the questions I ask. Several of my pups have come from what could be described as "unusual" houses I suspect a degree of eccentricity must be present in anyone who chooses to breed puppies
As for her neighbours, it probably is unpleasant but its not up to you to complain on their behalf.

As for the smell, the hot weather doesn't help, but some breeds are just very strong smelling (Labrador, retriever, spaniel spring to mind).

I'm a dog person, but would never have one of those breeds because I can't bear the smell of one - a family of that breed would be overwhelming!

No - I don't believe all breeders are like this.
The breeder we got our dog from, all the dogs live inside - as he is a giant breed her house is a liltle cluttered as they all have their own crate. House was also sectioned of with stairgates LOL.

House didn't really smell, and wouldn't have described it as dirty - we did end up with dog hair all over us - but we did pat and cuddle lots of diff dogs, so that is not surprising LOL
Her puppies are raised inside the house.

I would keep on looking for another breeder. presuming you don't want a show dog, I would be looking for puppies that are from a breeder who does all the relevant health tests, tests/breeds for temperament (show breeders are not always that concerned with that), and raises the puppies/dogs within a home/family environment.

or look at a rescue......

I have to disagree about smelly labs. Mine isn't smelly at all, unless he farts. He has never had a bath and has a decent diet. I love sniffing the top of his head because he has a lovely earthy puppy smell

Mine doesn't smell much either, Lil. Obviously, if he's rolled in something he might, and after a walk in this weather I occasionally catch a whiff of sweaty dog, but on the whole, and possibly because I was his bedding every other day, my house apparently doesn't smell of labrador/springer x. I am a bit paranoid about it, to be honest, and ask pretty much every person who visits if my house smells of dog!

We have a show spaniel with parents/grandparents that are very good and have champion titles in several countries. The breeder is well-known in the show world.

The breeder breeds more than one breed of dogs. There was also (at least) one cat in the home.

When we went to look at the puppies, her house was lovely, clean and smelled fine. No dog smell, no air freshener or other terrible smells.
All dogs were clean and they were just smelling normal. The mum would eat her puppies' poo, so her breath wasn't great, but that's also normal.

We were there during summer, and the puppies were mainly outside in a little area of the garden with loads of toys. They were used to being in the house as well - it was pretty clear that our puppy was aware of where the cat's bowl was

All health tests and checks were done, and the temperament of the dogs was very important to her. She matched the puppies to the owners, and having met the other puppies and owners, I think she did a great job.

Personally, if I had any issues with a breeder (including the home), I'd find someone else. There are usually loads to choose from and it's always a good idea to check more than one.

The breeder our current dog comes from has a house that is doggy focussed and bears the scars of doggy behaviour eg the lino in the kitchen is a bit raggy at the corners, and there is evidence of damage to skirting boards etc. But this is a very smalll scale breeder and our dog's mother, sister and a pup from the latest litter all live there. Plus she offers boarding/day care for dogs she has bred as she likes to keep in touch with their owners and sort out any behavioral issues. The house doesn' t smell doggy although that might be because of the breed which is an unsmelly one.

Our previous dog came from an environment very much like the one you describe (apart from the smell). Despite all the reassurances regarding breeding and hip scores (and our dog's dad won Best in Show at Crufts no less!!!!) Sadly all was NOT well - the bitch our puppy was bred from had a Hip Sore that exceeded the accepted limits (I realised in retrospect). Of all the bitches they had there WHY did they choose that one to breed from??? The dog that won Crufts sadly died at only 8 years old from kidney failure - and when we had to have our dog PTS I thought they would be interested to know why etc - nope. What I thought at the time must be a 'normal' set up for a very serious dog breeder - lots of concrete pens, a tiny grass exercise area, boisterous but happy looking dogs - well, I'm not so sure. Go with your gut instinct - if you think it all looks a bit 'wrong' (even tho you don't know what a good breeders premises should look like) then I would back off.

I only have one experience of getting a dog from a breeder, because the rest of mine have all been rescues. It was way back in 1998 and was also very hot at the time but our experience couldn't have been more different.

The breeder's house was just a normal family home. They had converted their utility room into a whelping room with large comfy whelping box and space for the pups to play away from mum once they started getting older and being weaned - and they kept it really clean, so very little smell.

A couple of times when we visited the pups were out on the lawn in a big puppy playpen, romping about with lots of different toys and things to chew, under the shade of a big tree. On another occasion she and her daughter were giving them individual attention one by one and getting them used to being handled and gently brushed.

I have to say, the pup we got was the most fantastic, even tempered, well socialised dog and I'm fairly sure most of that was down to her early experiences. She had a big thing for little girls with curly blonde hair - always adored them and I'm sure it's because they reminded her of her breeder's daughter.

If you really want to get a pedigree dog rather than a rescue, please go via the Kennel Club's Find a Puppy service and if at all possible go for one that is a member of their Assured Breeder Scheme. The Assured Breeders have a rosette next to their name on the find a puppy lists.

I don't see why the smell of her house has anything to do with it or who you want to report the breeder to?! People have different hygiene standards, people with animals generally tolerate a bit more smells, hair, dirt, etc. than people without.

I would want to see the pups in the house getting used to everyday noises and family life, so pups being kept outside 24/7 would be a deal breaker for me. You also need to think a bit more clearly about what you want from a dealer. What was this dealer breeding for? What lines was she using? How did the adult dogs react to you?

The KC Assured Breeder scheme isn't a guarantee of a good breeder - it just is not enforced/monitored closely enough, in my opinion. It helps, but isn't the be all and end all.

OP - the breeder could well just not be into house work. I have met many lik that. But although it's unpleasant, it doesn't mean she is a poor breeder. The condition of the pups, the condition of the parents, the history of the line, the committment of the breeder to the litter and whether or not you liked her are all important. As is your gut reaction.

What breed are you looking at?

Oh. And my Labradors don't smell either. Unless they've rolled in something grim or are ill.

Feathered, it may be worth checking to see if hte breeder is licensed by your local authority - the cleanliness of kennels and the provision of bedding material are items which are checked as part of the licence. Assured Breeder status is sadly no guarantee of a good breeder - agree entirely with Daisy - very poorly enforced, no teeth.

Her house isn't relevant at all (though may be icky) but I'd be concerned about kennels smelling particularly unpleasant. Even in this heat (actually, especially in this heat) hygiene standards should be high. Bowls washed after every meal, poo picked up regularly, kennels cleaned and hosed regularly, bedding washed etc. Typically, virtually every good doggy breeder/dog person with kennels that I know (and the same with horse people/stables) have little interest in housework but where their animals are housed is clean enough to eat your dinner off. Of course there is an animal smell but it's not unpleasant or overpowering. Good hygiene is fundamental to disease and parasite control - if they are cutting corners on that, I'd be worried.

Again, as others have said, how are these pups being socialised if they are in kennels?

Thanks for all that. I agree about a bit of dirtiness - but it was squalid. Really, really filthy.
I was looking at Irish Setters and wasn't going to buy a puppy. I wanted to talk to the breeder about temperament and suitability of being with young children. I wanted to give myself a cooling off period to think it through properly.
I actually think the breed probably isn't for us - too big and bouncy having seen them in the flesh. I haven't completely ruled it out as I know this experience has prejudiced me.

I know KC Assured isn't perfect, but it's a decent place to start, as at least things like litter numbers per year are recorded. Although scuttle is right, LA licenses would also be a good place to start. Then obviously go along with all the considerations people have mentioned on this thread, like proof of health tests and checks, handling and socialisation to people and household environment etc.

Agree entirely that the cleanliness of the house has very little to do with anything, but the pups and parents themselves should appear clean and healthy and their sleeping/playing area shouldn't appear to not have been cleaned for an extended period.

I used to volunteer at a rescue kennels, with mucking out the kennels as part of my duties. Yes, the kennels smelled a bit doggie, there were all sorts of dogs in there, some with health issues and digestive problems, but the bedding area was properly disinfected several times a day in the height of summer and all kennels and runs were constantly patrolled for any mess which had to be cleaned up as soon as they were noticed. They didn't smell foul at all - in fact the over-riding smell was the stuff they used for cleaning.

Cross posted, after having to answer the phone halfway through typing my post.

Squalid doesn't sound good at all, especially if you're referring to the dogs' accommodation.

The mother cleans the poos only while they are soley breast fed and pups poo in their bed.
At 4 weeks the breeder begins giving solid food to the pups and now they can walk, they leave their bed and do the solid poo in an outside area. Mum doesn't eat it, the breeder then has to clean it up.

If you're interested in that breed, look at Black RetrieverX Rescue It's not just retrievers (!), also setters and similar types. Their website is very out of date but FB page is good. Look out for DeepRedBetty on here, I think she works with them.

If you're not looking for a young puppy, I definitely wouldn't get it from a breeder who can't prove that they have been socialised well from 8 weeks onwards. The dog needs to be comfortable in a home environment, noises of hoover, tv, telephones, children etc and needs to have been taken out on walks, meeting lots of different types of people/dogs and seeing traffic, buses etc. If they haven't, you'll find it harder to get them used to all those things once they're a bit older.

Thank you.
Lady turmoil - that looks a great site. I will make sure I keep an eye on it. Thank you!

I breed Irish setters and 6 live in my house. This is not normal really. We have litters in our bedroom for 4-5 weeks and then they move into the kitchen to meet the rest of the gang. My kitchen at times has looked a little chewed. But dirt isn't really acceptable around young pups or outside concrete kennels unless they have soft bedding ect. However I am a bit neurotic and lots of doggy people I know are not house proud !!! As a breed they are generally great with children but they are quite big and bouncy !!! They are an exuberant breed and needs lots of free running as they get older or they can get very over excited indoors :) pm me if you want to know more about the breed and I must add we have no pups for sale , I am just willing to tell you about my lovely breed .