Labrador or cockapoo?

[Goneshopping]

Having seriously thought about getting a dog for the last couple of years, we have decided to go for it. I am a SAHM, DP works long hours in the week but is at home all weekend. We have 3 children aged 3, 8 & 10 and have a large garden & also have lots of fields near us ideal for dog walking. I have never had a dog but DP grew up with them. We had decided to get a Labrador based on their ideal nature as a family dog but I have recently met some gorgeous cockapoo's and wonder if they would be more suitable. I must admit I like the idea that they are low-moulting & supposedly don't smell as much as Labs. Please don't shoot me down in flames! However my main concern is a choosing a child friendly dog. Advice great fully received. TIA.

No - of course they don't walk it and of course they cba to train it .

Did you walk and train this lab that turned?

Our rescue whippy follows our boys around - my youngest was only 2 years old when we got him. It is lovely to see.

My pil dachshund (which they owned from being a pup and is pedigree from a very good blood line etc) went for my youngest DC. I keep them separate now of course.

Completely unrelated to whether you get your dog as a pup or a rescue. Oh of course, there is the snob value of getting a pup though.

"We put ds in his carrycot in her bed the moment he came home to make sure she knew he was above her"

-headdesk-

Re: "put him in his carrycot in her bed the moment he came home to make sure he was above her".

Fairly sure that pack theory and hierarchy have been discredited too .

choccy that was incredibly outdated advice. "Pack theory" was very popular for a while but is now known to be total rubbish. Dogs understand that they are dogs and we are humans and dogs in a human family do not behave the same as wolves in a pack, nor do they expect us to. Any trainer who believes in "alpha rolling" a dog, pinning it down to show it who's boss, never letting the dog go in through a door in front of you, never letting the dog eat before you've eaten etc is woefully out-of-date.

I think the best way to get a dog that is great with children is to spend time learning how to read your dog's body language and to ensure your children treat the dog with care. I think lots of owners can't really read their dogs, I couldn't for years until I needed to when I got some very damaged dogs.

It doesn't help that there are plenty of unhelpful outdated 'experts' (rather think choccy may have met a few of these) and plenty of unrealistic expectations about dog behaviour.

Do your hw, grow your understanding and be prepared to put the time in then lab, mix, rescue or pup that choice probably doesn't matter so much because you will do great.

Lurcherlover, I'd think you'll find it is not outdated. After much research both online and talking to trainers, it was one of our most highest concerns about getting a puppy near to the arrival of our ds.

You need to train a dog from day one to know who's boss, otherwise you end up with a dog like our neighbours have. They have a goldenpoo, it barks all day (currently listening to it), they can't even get it n the house!, even dragging it. It totally rules he roost and it's only 9 months old.

There are cerain people who take things a bit too far and not even let the dog in the house, but that was by someone we knew who trained, bred and kept dogs purely for shooting, not as a pet aswell. They used to charge between £10k and £16k for a puppy and people would travel all over the world for them due to their parents and blood line.
If they were trained, anything up to £30k!!

Re the daschund, did it have contact with children from a pup?
And yes we did walk our dog and train the one that turned, but again, due to the fact his history was not known 100%, even though they said he was ok with kids, he actually wasn't with them permanently.

Think we may just have to agree to disagree on this one. It's like anything, if you're burned once, you don't do it again, especially when it comes to your children.

Choccy, yes the dachshund had contact with children from being a pup - my pil have 15 grandchildren. There are always lots in the house.

The fact you apparently had a dog which turned though had nothing to do with not knowing his history. Some dogs turn when their history is well known, for a variety of reasons. Do you only allow people whose history you know completely to have contact with your children? I doubt it - you look at how they interact with your children and the information you do have and base your judgement of how good they will be with your children on that.

I wonder, when you brought the baby home with that dog, did you insist on showing the dog he was lower in the pack than the baby? Did you insist on putting the baby in that dog's bed too? The dog may have turned because he was frightened of all the changes, and rather than introducing the dog carefully to the baby and showing him that the baby is a good thing, you try to show the dog that the baby is higher in the hierarchy.

I think we are unlikely to agree on this and that is fine. But, by going around saying that rescue dogs are not suitable to live with small children, you are perpetuating a myth. There are many people on here who happily combine young children and rescue dogs. There are also examples of people who have problems with dogs they've owned from pups. As I said previously to simply say Rescue=bad pups=good is somewhat naive.

Choccy, here's just one article. Sorry, I'm on my phone so I can't do live links. There are plenty more if you look. I assure you it IS an outdated and potentially dangerous theory.

www.apdt.com/petowners/choose/dominance.aspx

The rspca, dogs trust etc all recognise pack theory as out dated. It is also implicated in making nervous dogs more problematic.

Some of the biggest media presences are outdated and highly criticised by welfare organisations. Avoiding trainers who analyse dog behaviours as facets of dominance helps create a happy dog.

Of the two breeds I would choose a labrador. Maybe a cockapoo with older children, or when it wasn't your first dog. They're just more of a gamble, you don't know what you're going to get with a cross. I know it's never a guarantee but with a lab you can predict more reliably, you'll get a lab temperament.

As I said, he was fine with contact, as are a lot of dogs, it was the permanent thing he had a problem with

Onetwo 'you never know what you're going to get with a cross' my thoughts exactly.

Goneshopping - we have a brown lab, and we love her to bits (we got her as a puppy). We also have a lab-pointer cross who we got from the Dogs' Trust - she's a very different dog, and does have some issues, but is equally loved and lovely.

Regarding the smell issue - where we live, there are two or three local walks where the dogs can easily get into the rivers and either paddle or swim, and we have found that these regular dips in running water seem to keep them pretty sweet-smelling - it is certainly worth the effort of drying them when they come back from walks, because the house doesn't smell doggy, and generally neither do they.

For us, the big smell issues are when they roll in something. I can't speak for other dogs, but it seems pretty clear to me that labradors (and lab crosses) are magnetically drawn to anything smelly, and will roll in it with gay abandon, until dragged out. Best effort so far was ddog2 (the lab-pointer cross) who found half a dead seal on Stevenston beach. It was very dead, and manky and runny - and first of all she wanted to bring it home with her, and when she couldn't extract it from the rocks, she rolled in it instead. When dh brought her home, she needed two washes in the garden (dog shampoo and the cold, cold hose), just to make her fit to bring indoors, and even then she needed a third shower (upstairs, in our en suite this time - not that she is spoiled, oh no), before she was truly fit for human company again!!

I do have a calm cockerpoo. I scoured the country searching for a breeder who used and understood optigen testing I then waited months for my puppy. I then invested hours and hours over the last three years training him to reach this stage.
If I was going to buy a lab I would be looking for hip and elbow Dysplasia and eye testing I could then wait months if not years for a puppy. I would then invest hours in training and again at about 3 years of age I would have a calm well behaved dog.

Very good advice, Lonecat - any decent breeder will have the hip and eye scores of both parents, and I believe that knee-scoring is being done more now too.

Basically, labs are prone to a painful, disabling condition called hip dysplasia. X-rays of the hips are marked with 0 being the best score and 53 being the worst - so the lower the score, the better. Both parents should have as low hip scores as possible, and shouldn't be above about 10. This doesn't guarantee no hip problems for the pups, but does greatly reduce the chance.

I don't know the details for knee and eye scores but the principle is the same - you want the best scores in the parents.

We bought from a registered Kennel Club breeder, recommended to us by thenLabrador Club of Scotland.

Get elbow scores for the lab too, and don't over exercise them as pups. bitter voice of experience

OP if you want a no "low moulting" "gorgeous" "wonderful" family dog why not get a poodle? These happy go lucky, endlessly cheerful, fun loving, easily trainable and non shedding dogs are a joy to own. Unlike either labs and cockerpoos they are very healthy if bought form a proper breeder and are I believe the miniatures are longest living breed of dog 18yr is common.

Poodles are lovely dogs by the optigen testing for PRA applies even more with poodles than cockerpoos.

LoneCat all reputable poodle breeders will automatically do the optigen test for PRA. There is a Miniature Poodle Club UK website Jackie Kitchener know about any puppies and rescues. I just don't know how to link in.