The right decision?

[Ponyofdoom]

My wonderful, otherwise very young fit and healthy, 11 year old Ridgeback has mammary cancer. She has had 2 lumps removed and biopsied; they were malignant. A couple more have now grown. I received varied advice from the my vets and sought a second opinion. The first vet was suggesting mastectomy and chemo. The second said that I should leave her be and have a good Summer then PTS as the cancer would probably already have spread, even though it didn't show on the scan. So I took her a top referral centre where they said they would operate, but it would be two separate, quite major operations with a greater than 50% chance that the cancer would come back anyway. Much as my heart wants to try to save her my head is telling me to leave her be. I guess this is a WWYD? Thanks for reading anyway.

At 11 as a Ridgeback she's quite elderly. A lot depends on how she is in herself - if the suggested operations are mammary strips, they are major procedures, painful and take a good while recover from. A dog who is very fit and well will cope better than one which is slowing down a lot.

I think a good thing to remember in these situations is 'just because we can do something doesn't mean we should - in your shoes I'm not sure I'd put her through surgery.

As hard as it is, I wouldn't put her through the operation..... I would let her enjoy her twilight years, and offer palliative care.

So sorry to hear that pony :(
We lost our old Rottweiler last January to bone cancer at the age of 12 1/2. Like your girl she was fit and active with a real joy for life, up until 2 days before she was PTS she showed no symptoms whatsoever. According to the vets there was lots they could do but, on reflection, not very much of any substance and certainly nothing to cure her. We were firmly of the opinion that at her age it would be unfair of us to put her through anything, despite the fact she was insured. It was (and still is) heartbreaking but looking back I know we did the right thing as in my heart I know she wouldn't be here now even had we gone ahead with treatment.
In your situation I personally would enjoy the summer with her and see how things progress. As poached said, just because things can be done does not necessarily mean try should be.
Good luck

If I were you I think I'd leave her be and make the most of enjoying the time left to her. The more than 50% odds of it returning don't make the risk worth it to me I'm afraid.

It's very hard to take, but I think non intervention is the best thing for her and for you - so sorry.

I've just seen my wonderful DH through treatment for cancer which sadly failed. There is no way on earth I could put any of my dogs through that type of treatment.

I would go for palliative care and maintain the best quality of life possible.

Thank you all for your kind words and thoughtful replies. Daisy, I am so sorry to hear what you have been through, I too saw a close family member treated unsuccessfully for cancer.
Yes it would be a mammary strip both sides and removal of lymph glands. She recovered very quickly from the lumpectomy op., but this would be much worse.
Topbanna you certainly made the brave, right choice for your rottie girl.
In theory its a no brainer really; if it was one op. then a good % chance of recovery I would go for it; but two ops then poor odds...it doesn't make sense. Yet I am so desperate to buy another year or two for her!
But I have more or less decided to leave her now and just spend lots of time with her, lots of long walks.
Thanks again x

I'm so sorry to hear about your beautiful girl.

I lost a cocker to cancer and in the very advanced stage, while the vet could have sent him to the regional vet hospital, there was no guarantee that he wouldn't have died during any invasive treatment. So I said goodbye to him while he still merrily wagged his tail until he quietly went to a place where there was no more pain. Broke my heart but I still think it was the right course of action.

I also have a DH with cancer. There's no way I would put an animal through what he's having to endure. Being a human he can rationalise the awful bits. But a dog can't.

You've made such a brave and courageous decision. My heart goes out to you But it is the right thing to do. x

Sorry to hear the news. I agree with leaving her be. In a similar situation with my 11 year old. Lump which could be removed - major surgery and three days at vet. He'd hate that so we're leaving it be. I hope you have several more months left, but enjoy whatever time you have left. Eleven years and five days ago I had a call from my vet to say my 10 year old dog had nasty cancer, with 2-3 months to live. Eleven years ago tonight she died in my arms, naturally. No-one knows what the future holds so we enjoy each day - even with our younger dogs ... x

Thank you for your kind words, I do feel better now. I am sorry for what you are both going through too. xx

I just want to clarify, in response to a couple of posts, that chemo in animals is very different than chemo for humans. Its aim in humans is to cure and so it is aggressive. In animals chemo is only palliative and performed only to improve quality of life or to extend life if the side effects are mild and tolerable.

But sadly in the case of your dog Pony it's the surgical aspects which would be toughest. I am sorry you're having to go through this :(

As is often the case poached eggs and I would use the phrase 'just because we can doesn't mean we should'.

I think you've made the right choice in not going ahead with the ops.

My 11 yo Dog has bone cancer, and the vet was quite clear in saying that a much younger dog could have surgery to remove the leg and could live a hopefully cancer-free life, but the age of my dog and the trauma of the op made it very much not an option.

Lots of love and care and oh so many doggie treats - that's the way to go.

So sorry you're having to go through this. It's absolutely awful.

Thanks for the moral support but sorry to hear another sad tale :(
I have been thinking that maybe cancer spreads more slowly in old dogs as I believe it does in humans, so maybe we will have a little more time with our loyal friends..
I am worried I am going into denial a bit and pretending she will be fine..she has been my crutch/support for quite a while now since bereavements and then my relationship ending and living alone now, so I will be lost without her; she is such a good, funny, intelligent dog. She loves to sleep on the bed with me, leaning on me all night until I am half pushed out of the bed in the morning!
I should be grateful for 11 good years :)
Thanks again.

It's really hard not to go in denial, especially if your girl is like mine - a bit slower and a bit more sleepy than normal, but otherwise acting and looking like she always has. It's hard to believe that it's as bad as the vet's said it is. I find I'm constantly flicking between denial and hovering over her in an attempt to protect her from bumping in to anything - as her cancer is in her leg it means that leg is particularly breakable.

I can empathise with what you're saying. My dog is my life, and has been for some time now. I've been living on my own for 5 or 6 years now and through it all, she's been my constant companion; it's so hard to come to terms with the reality that our days are numbered, so I think you can allow yourself a little denial to make things easier, and to best enjoy your time with her. They surprise us, these dogs, and they don't give up easily.

Enjoy your time with her, and know there's a lovely group of people here in the Doghouse for support, on the bad days and also on the good ones.

Thank you, this forum has been so useful and supportive. I am glad your girl is still well. Mine hasn't even begun to slow down, she is still as fit as she has ever been, running and leaping around, so it seems hard to believe she is technically a sick, elderly dog! We have indeed been honoured to have our loyal companions is our time of need. x

in our time of need

I'm so sorry to hear that

I think you have made the best choice for her, for the little that is worth.

The issue isn't so much the chemo, as pp said it is a very different kettle of fish to human chemo - however, depending on protocol it is weekly appointments of a morning/day at the vets, medication at home and it requires significant management that can impact on their freedoms (for example all waste is toxic and no walks in public areas, you should be in protective clothing when dealing with any bodily fluids etc) and it's use is not curative.

The mammary strip is the thing - bilateral mammary strips are brutal surgeries. They are painful and take a great deal of recovery. Drains at home, strict rest, uncomfortable over a large area. It's a lot to ask, let alone of an older lady.
Combine the 2 and the balance is weighted quite heavily if you consider how long you may get from it - is an extra +/- 6 months under chemo, with 3-5 weeks surgery recovery at the front end, worth it from a quality of life point of view.

There are excellent pain relief options now, with adjunctive gabapentin, tramadol etc, she should never need to be in pain.
I hope you have wonderful months ahead. It just sucks that it hurts more to feel that you are turning options down instead of trying everything in hopefulness.

I so feel for you, we went through this decision making process a couple of weeks ago and it was awful. You know you are doing the right thing but gawd it's painful. Much love xxxx

Totally and Awks I am grateful for your posts. Totally, thank you for the honest, knowledgeable description of what would be involved. The referral vet actually said that he didn't think he would put a dog of his through it, which obviously swayed me. Awks, sorry to hear you have been there too, it is the doing nothing that feels so wrong somehow, even though it isn't..sending love to you too xx