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The doghouse

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Original poster

Sick of hearing 'my dog is friendly'

40 replies

monkeycrzy · 06/06/2013 22:18

I have a very fear aggressive springer spaniel when it comes to other dogs. It is getting to the point where I dread walking him. I always take him to places where dogs would not normally be off. As soon as I see a dog coming up to us, I muzzle him, but sometimes I get caught off guard and he tries to attack the other dog.

I am so fed up of people letting their dogs come up to him and saying 'My dog is friendly." Even when I shout out a warning I often get the other dog owner shouting "they'll be fine'"

When he does snap at them, i get the dirtiest look off the other dog owner. I feel like I cannot win.

AIBU :(

OP posts:
EuphemiaLennox · 06/06/2013 22:24

I have this with my rescue spaniel. I keep him on the lead and away from other dogs baut can't stop other dogs running up to him.

I do find though that most owners are usually understanding when he snaps and when I apologise say its their dogs fault.

Makes walking v stressful though.

Whoknowswhocares · 06/06/2013 22:39

Yanbu. My puppy is very friendly but im trying to train her and heartily sick of people letting their dog rush up to her in the middle of an on lead training sesion.
Would it not ease your stress and be better for all to just muzzle him for the whole walk? Then there is no chance of him snapping and rehearsing the 'bad' behaviour (hopefully helping you break the cycle) or hurting another dog

Original poster
monkeycrzy · 06/06/2013 22:42

I could muzzle him the whole time but he likes a sniff and eating grass (think he's a cow) and I feel as though he is being punished for something that was not his fault

Guess I just blame the fact he was mauled as a puppy by a jack russell off lead.

OP posts:
LEMisdisappointed · 06/06/2013 22:49

Have you taken any steps to help him socialise? I do sympathise, i have a dog that is a litte bastard difficult with other dogs. I keep him on the lead now so if other dogs come up and it kicks off i have hold of him. He is only a JRT so easy to hoik him up out of harms way stop him from mauling anything

Scuttlebutter · 06/06/2013 22:50

You can make him wear a yellow ribbon, lead or bandana. See the Yellow Dog project for details. It is slowly gaining ground in this country.

I would also recommend BAT - a technique for helping reactive dogs deal with their fears. We've been using it with one of our greyhounds who was very reactive and we've seen a massive improvement. It's not an overnight success, but through baby steps he's gained enormously in confidence. His main triggers now are offlead dogs that come up and bother him. Hmm - I feel your pain, and sympathise entirely.

LEMisdisappointed · 06/06/2013 22:53

I cant help but wonder if you muzzling him when you see another dog is causing his anxiety? Its like every time another dog approaches, something bad happens (the muzzle) you are uptight and the dog senses it? If he were muzzled the whole time, there would not be that reaction when another dog came along. Also, dogs do tend to react more when they are on lead. My dog will fight 90% of the time if he is on the lead, if he is off lead probably only 30%, i keep him on the lead now though, as i can't be doing with it when he kicks off he is such a twunt

Whoknowswhocares · 06/06/2013 22:53

I understand you wanting to get to a point where the muzzle is not necessary but surely his issues will get more and more ingrained every time he reacts and snaps. I'm thinking of it as a training aid for the short term to help you while you work through his issues with a trainer, not a lifetime sentence.
I'm no expert though! Just thinking that if he really goes for another dog then things could get far, far worse for him (and you). You have no guarantee that an off lead dog will not attack him back and hurt him or that he will cause a bad injury to a dog

Original poster
monkeycrzy · 06/06/2013 22:53

We had him in puppy classes for 4 months. Did nothing really. We are planning to take him to a behaviourist when money allows.

I think it is me needs the training more than him as I am sure I am transmitting my anxiety to him

OP posts:
Original poster
monkeycrzy · 06/06/2013 22:57

I will look into getting a basket muzzle for him but otherwise I will just walk him when no other dogs about. It doesn't happen that often; I was just having a moan :)

I will have a look into that BAT - thanks for the heads up

OP posts:
LEMisdisappointed · 06/06/2013 22:58

Baskerville muzzles still allow panting and drinking, although not grass eating :)

Is there anyone you know with a laid back dog that you could walk with? my dog happily walks with my mums dog. Of course none of this really stops him from being a little shit, but to be fair, i haven't really taken any steps to change his behaviour apart from keeping him on the lead, he is a JRT cross with a small mouth and innefective bite and of course if it kicks off big time i just pick him up. Your dog is a bit bigger so this wouldnt be feasible, because I don't really care about dog fights (most of them are all snap and snarl and appear a lot worse than they really are) I don't get uptight about it.

Ha, you might take my advice more seriously if i said, oh well i dont get uptight abut it and my dog behaves, he doesn't, i just don't worry about it!

MagratGarlik · 07/06/2013 00:33

No advice, but empathise. One of mine is fear aggressive on the lead and being a sight-hound we can't always let him off. He was attacked when we first got him by an off-lead staffie x rottie which was also trained to be people aggressive (a number of people locally had problems with the same dog/owner). I've had any number of disagreements with numpties who let their off lead dogs run up to him, "it's OK they're friendly"

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 07/06/2013 08:22

I use BAT with my fear aggressive spaniel. He never approaches other dogs, but used to go apeshit if another dog ran up to him. Now, after using BAT, he can tolerate a well mannered dog coming over. He throws 'sod off' signals about like confetti, and a well adjusted dog goes 'Oh, a grumpy bastard. Ok' and trots off. We now only have a problem when the approaching dog doesn't get the hint, insists on sniffing his bum despite him making it clear he doesn't like it, or jumps on him. Then we get a lot of noise, teeth and a seriously pissed off spaniel. We never greet on lead, it's too scary for him. Like you, if he's approached on lead, I yell at the other owner to please recall their dog. If they don't, and he turns into a snarling devil-beast, then .

D0oinMeCleanin · 07/06/2013 08:54

I hear you.

We get this all the time. I am so bloody sick of it.

Whippy is getting loads better due to on going BAT and loads of off lead socialising but still has issues with dogs smaller than her and particularly over excited dogs when on lead.

I also get people questioning me when I tell them to keep their dog away they'll reply "Oh, but they played together in the field yesterday, they'll be fine. They like each other" Yes, they did play together in the field yesterday and as I told you yesterday she is an entirely different dog on-lead.

Even when she is snarling and frothing from behind my leg, they still think it will be fine Confused They only stop thinking it's fine when she eventually realises the dog is not going to back off and so lunges at them, teeth on show making a hell of a lot of noise. Only then do they recall their dog whilst muttering about how my dog is out of control Hmm Angry

Frettchen · 07/06/2013 11:41

My Dad's dog is fear aggressive. Here are the things which work with him;

1 - Keep your dog on a halti head-collar whilst walking - it's less restrictive than a muzzle and it gives good control of the head. Give lots of gentle praise and rewards when you're getting him used to it.

2 - whenever you see another dog; instead of going into stressed mode; go to the side of the path and ask your dog to sit and face you. Give a reward. Call out to the other dog owner and tell them that your dog is snappy/bites. If you word it so that you're clear that your dog might be the threat then they'll be more likely to respond than if you sound like you're accusing their dog of being threatening. We dog owners can be rather precious folk.

3 - As the other dogs pass, continue to ask your dog to look at you, and giving treats. Be calm and positive and give lots of fuss and praise after the other dogs have passed.

The most important thing is that you don't get stressed when you see another dog, as that'll carry through your commands and your body language and will give him a reason to be stressed.

paddythepooch · 09/06/2013 14:49

I saw someone walking two dogs recently with some wire muzzles - they were barely visible but big enough to allow sniffing, panting and probably a bit of grass chewing too. Very impressed.

Greydog · 09/06/2013 15:01

Oh, how I sympathise. We have a rescue grey, and there are so many morons who let their dogs run up to you. Ours hates labs more than any other sort. Mine is always on the lead, and I've had row after row with people who's dogs keep running to you. The only time I let her off is if we are out of the house at 5am (which we often are) there doesn't seem to be an answer - there's just too many half witted, irresponsible dog owners out there

littlewhitebag · 09/06/2013 18:24

My dog is one of those over friendly labs. I accept that if she runs up to a dog who then snaps at her that it is her fault and she needs to learn better manners. I watch out constantly when she is off lead, say on the beach, for the body language of the owner and if i think she is not welcome i go and get her. However she will come away quickly if she knows the other dog is not interested. However, i am not prepared to always have my dog on lead just in case she should come across a dog who doesn't like other dogs. We work hard on her recall and it is slowly getting better but she is not perfect. It cuts both ways really.

Floralnomad · 09/06/2013 18:47

littlewhitebag no it doesn't 'cut both ways' , your off lead dog should not go up to a dog on a lead ,and its not a case of always keeping your dog on a lead its a case of always having control of your dog.

littlewhitebag · 09/06/2013 19:12

I really disagree with this way of thinking. I would rather my dog didn't approach other dogs - any dogs on lead or off. However, she does and we are working on it. I am unsure as to how i train her to know the difference between a dog on lead or a dog off lead. i feel there is a lot of negativity here for people who have bouncy, over friendly labs. There are breeds of dogs i really dislike but i would not say that on here as i understand people like lots of different kinds of dogs. Sometimes i read posts about labs and want to weep at the horribleness of some posters.

Floralnomad · 09/06/2013 19:27

It's quite simple if you see a dog on a lead you call your dog away before she gets near it , nobody expects your dog to tell the difference that is what you are for . I've not particularly noticed an anti Labrador vibe in the doghouse .

foolonthehill · 09/06/2013 19:29

Just to encourage you Op my springer was very fear aggressive when we first got her...now she ignores dogs mostly...but can tolerate a friendly approach...and only gets pissed off if they are over persistent and don;t get the "i am a spaniel, I like to spaniel in the bushes...I DON@T PLAY" vibe.

mind you..much to my surprise she went up to play today Confused...she was fine...i was anxious and over protective!!!!

MagratGarlik · 09/06/2013 19:31

Littlewhitebag, at training classes you will do exercises to teach your dog to ignore other dogs (whether on or off the lead) and focus entirely on you.

We work very hard at getting our reactive whippy to do this and ask our hard work is completely undone by people who just let their dogs come bounding over. If my dog is on a lead - please explain how it 'cuts both ways'? Apart from my dog being on lead and training him to ignore other dogs, what else do you suggest I should be doing when your bouncy dog comes over uninvited?

MagratGarlik · 09/06/2013 19:31

*all not ask

Underdone · 09/06/2013 20:19

@ littlewhitedog - it is not your dog's fault if she gets bitten by an on lead dog - it's YOURS! It is really unfair of you to allow your dog to run up to an on lead dog. The chances are it's on a lead for a reason. It could be unsociable, or ill, or old or something else entirely but by allowing your dog to be out of control, you could undo work being done by the owner of the on lead dog and put both dogs under extreme stress with the potential of injury.

I recognise that you say you are trying to train your dog not to do this and no dog's recall is 100% perfect but you also say that you disagree that you should have to do it. I ask you think things through from the other dog owner's point of view - maybe use a long line until your recall is better?

Florainomad says it perfectly 'It's quite simple, if you see a dog on a lead you call your dog away before she gets near it'. Just that.

littlewhitebag · 09/06/2013 20:19

We have been to classes and they have made a massive improvement to the way she approaches dogs. She used to bound up and jump on any dogs head. Now she approaches more calmly and sniffs politely as she works out if she is welcome or not. If the other dog ignores her or growls she backs off and comes away. If they want to play she will get right in there. It is the not approaching in the first place i struggle with. Honestly i am not trying to be awkward i really want my dog to be able to do the right thing but i suppose what i am trying to say (not very well really) is that my dog will just come uninvited despite my best efforts and i would like a little tolerance with this until i can improve on this. She is still a young dog (just turned 1) and i am sure she will continue to get better over time.