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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Dog returned from kennels today :(

55 replies

ChocolateBiscuitCake · 15/03/2013 20:25

We adopted a 2 year old black lab about 7 weeks ago. He is gorgeous, amazing, divine and we are all smitten with him! We have three young children under 4 and he has the patience of a saint. His indoor "manners" are impeccable (no going upstairs, no begging, no getting on sofa, lets children climb all over him).

However, his outdoor behaviour was less impressive. He could not walk to heal (pulled my arm off and pulled the buggy over) and his recall was selective.

I went to a local dog trainer to seek advise and was told it would take about 6 months of intensive work at home to sort out his bad habits.

Selfishly this just wasn't realistic given the children so I asked if the trainer could do it and he said he could in about 4 weeks.

Naively, I signed him up for a 4 week intensive training "regime".

I collected my dog today.

He is skeletal (I know this can happen in kennels), he has raw testicles and ears and his spirit is gone. Distressed by his distress, I took him to the vet who says he has raw skin from lying on concrete and he has been given anti inflamatories and been put on antibiotics.

The guilt I feel is indescribable as I never thought that this was what I signed up to but I am desperate to contact the trainer and express how angry and upset we are and the obvious distress and discomfort that this dog has been under. I live 10 minutes away - surely the should have called (I spoke to them weekly to get an update on progress and all was "great").

I have never had a dog before - please can I have guidance as to whether this is normal from kennels or whether I should make a complaint.

Any suggestions really welcomed :(

OP posts:
Willowisp · 15/03/2013 21:25

Don't be ridiculous inthepotty, perfectly reasonable questions to ask.

No-one knows anything about the dogs background & sadly, dogs don't forget easily. It may take years to recover.

Lucyellensmum95 · 15/03/2013 21:32

Thats rubbish willow - dogs, fortunately, are able to move on from traumatic experiences - I have a wonderful little terrier curled up on my lap that had a terrible start in life. He is now a fab little family pet with no fear or anxieties. The same for my old rottie that really had a shit time before we took him on, it took time and love but he also turned into a happy family pet.

Where the problem lies is what the OP does now - she needs to get to training classes that will help HER be able to support her dog and make him feel safe. What is the fucking point of slating the OP and telling her what a cunt she is, she did wrong, but for the right reasons.

Lilyloo · 15/03/2013 21:34

Any reputable rescue would strongly advise against any sort of rehoming, albeit temporarily, I am shocked that they didn't give you any form of help after you rehomed him.
I agree with willow this could be hugely damaging for the op dog.

KeatsiePie · 15/03/2013 21:36

I guess I shouldn't have said "dogs forget"; I think to say that dogs just plain forget is an oversimplification, b/c dogs do seem to retain memories of trauma. BUT tons of reassurance and love will do a lot to make those memories recede. They may resurface at times; certain things may somehow remind the dog of the trauma, but, again, reassurance will help, stable routines will help, and most of all, knowing that in his home, he will NEVER be hit or yelled at or frightened will help more than anything. That's why the OP needs to find a gentle-training class. I just meant to tell the OP that I think if she can still give this dog a good life and he can still be happy.

nurseneedshelp · 15/03/2013 21:37

Ok I was probably a bit harsh there, apologies I'm just upset for the poor dog!
You obviously care about him because you wouldn't have seeked advice from the guy in the first place and then you've quite rightly taken him to the vets afterwards.
I'm just shocked that you've handed the poor dog over to a stranger! I've had my rescue for nearly 2 years and he still causes me grief! But I would never do what you've done! I don't know a anyone who would hand their dog over for someone else to sort.

Hope you get the poor thing sorted

ChocolateBiscuitCake · 15/03/2013 21:37

Thank you for the responses and I understand the anger directed towards me, although fear not, I am pretty angry with myself.

For avoidance of doubt, the children do not literally climb on him (but they do shower him with a lot of affection, which is closely monitored!). But if he stands in a doorway, my 1 year old crawls between his legs to get past and the dog doesn't bat an eyelid - that is what I mean by his gentle nature.

He was not re-homed through a centre. We took him off a young couple who were moving abroad and, reading between the lines, couldn't cope in their very small home with a BIG dog. I knew when we got him that he didn't walk to heal, but I hadn't anticipated that he would not return when called. We have a lot of space with woods and fields out our back door and I am not sure he was able to cope with the new freedom of space. We became very limited as to where we could walk him and I went to have an hour's lesson as to what to do to train him. The whole thing spiralled and rather than 6 months of me training daily at home, I took the easy option of 4 weeks residential training (I am wholly to blame, but hand on heart thought that in the long run, for 4 weeks away, he would be stimulated and trained).

I have some help with the children, so walking with them is rare whilst they are so young (and therefore walks are short in distance!). On this occasion, he was clipped to the buggy whilst I was trying to lock a gate to a field. However, I would like to be able to walk more with the buggy as its a lovely family thing to do.

Anyway, I will indeed contact the trainer, the RSPCA, the council and anyone else that you think should know. I will update you all and, thank you again.

OP posts:
Lilyloo · 15/03/2013 21:38

Lucyellen not all mistreated dogs can become loving pets with no fears or anxieties through time and love.
Sadly some dogs can struggle their whole lives to overcome issues.
Op as others have said name and shame you have been given terrible advice.

mercibucket · 15/03/2013 21:40

what rescue let you do this? poor dog Sad were you not allowed to see the dog? v worrying

Inthepotty · 15/03/2013 21:40

Agree with Lucyellens.

OP, name and shame this trainer.

Then find one who will work with YOU on your dogs problems. All issues can be resolved, a clever lab will easy peasy pick up loose lead walking and recall. Dogs confidence, and spirit, can be built back up, with the help from a behaviourist. Maybe if you could give a rough location, someone could help you by way of a recomendation?

Please don't blame yourself, you thought you were doing the right thing.

mercibucket · 15/03/2013 21:42

sorry, x post. what on earth was this trainer thinking, advising this

KeatsiePie · 15/03/2013 21:42

Chocolate I am sorry I keep posting, I am a dog person too and just keep wanting to help you and the dog both. Something else I would recommend -- please call your vet and ask for referrals to behavioral specialist for traumatized dogs. I think, re-reading your OP and the line "his spirit is gone," that you will need help with regard to how best to reassure him and give him a sense of stability. Not training, but someone who can explain to you how to help him recover from the trauma. There are probably specific ways to help him, and I do think you need to find out. I really do get that you were trying to do the right thing and that it must be very hard to find the time for intensive work, but unfortunately you really do owe the dog whatever intensive help he needs now. I'm so sorry. Please give him a lot of physical attention and talk to him gently in the meantime (as I'm sure you would), and please tell the children to be very gentle with him, he may be very afraid of everything right now.

Lucyellensmum95 · 15/03/2013 21:44

You are right lilyloo - but i dont think that this breif period of horrendousness for this dog will actually traumatise him for life (thank god), if it had been long term then yes i think it would be very different, and of course, this is assuming that the dog wasn't beaten, whilst in kennels.

OP, this may sound a bit daft but has there been ANY improvement in the dogs behaviour on the lead? I am assuming that you paid quite a bit of money for this "service"

Booyhoo · 15/03/2013 21:47

it's stuff like this that means i dont even leave my dog with a groomer. i couldn't bear the thought of him being in pain or afraid.

HotPinkWeaselWearingLederhosen · 15/03/2013 21:58

On a practical note a training lead such as This one (my fave) is brilliant.

You can attach it to a harness/collar and wear it over your shoulder. This means two hands on the pushchair, or one hand on the pushchair and the other free to access your treats/clicker for training.

Willowisp · 15/03/2013 22:02

Lucyellensmum95 don't twist my words & "rubbish" me. Dogs, animals, people never forget. Ever.

Chocolatebiscuitcake - thanks for explaining about the dogs origins. There is no anger from me, just confusion with lack of support available to you.

Please do seek out other training classes - when I first had my rescue dog we had some challenges & the rescue's trainer/behaviorist & I clashed terribly...she just wanted to tell me how good she was Hmm

I spoke to a few trainers about classes but decided to loan Victoria Stillwell's books & managed to watch most of her Its me or the Dog series on Sky. I also watched Cesar Milan as i wanted an informed decision why his methods weren't for us. I have different dog breed & issues though & with my DC's at school, have ample free time to dedicate to damaged-and-desperate !

ChocolateBiscuitCake · 15/03/2013 22:04

Okay, please can you add/delete to my email:

Dear ,

I will cut to the chase - I collected xxxx from the kennels today. He was wet when I arrived (I had asked for him to be washed) and it was pouring with rain, so I put him straight in to the car and drove home. Our handover was very brief (and no suggestion of showing me what he had learnt). When we returned home, he got into the house it became immediately apparent how skeletal he has become and how broken in spirit he was. He was cowering, arching his back and terrified. His obvious distress has been deeply upsetting.

However, I am horrified to see that xxxx has a red raw, weeping testicle, ear sores and two blisters/sores on his lips. This is under no circumstances EVER acceptable. It is even more unacceptable that it was not addressed at handover or that in the last 4 weeks there has been no phone call to explain that his condition has been deteriorating in the kennels. We entrusted him in your care and expect the "dog experts" to ensure that all the dogs are fit, healthy and thriving.

I have taken him to the vet. He has sores from the concrete. He has been given painkillers and is on a course of antibiotics. If the back arching continues, he will be x-rayed.

I would like an explanation from yourselves as to how and why my dog has been returned in this condition. I will be contacting the RSPCA in the morning and the council on Monday.

Regards,

OP posts:
Lucyellensmum95 · 15/03/2013 22:07

I think that says it all really, although i do wonder if you should hold off, inform the RSPCA first, you do not want to be warning them of a possible inspection - please tell me you haven't paid them! Because i certainly wouldnt be parting with a penny.

KeatsiePie · 15/03/2013 22:10

Hmm. I think the email is good, wouldn't change anything.

But, if you're going to call the RSPCA, is it best to warn the abusive facility first? They need to be shut down. I don't know what RSPCA response time is like but assume they will get out there immediately and see the dogs the facility staff are currently abusing. I'm afraid the facility may try to cover things up and will therefore avoid being shut down.

pigsDOfly · 15/03/2013 22:11

I would also advise you OP to do a lot of research for yourself. Read, read and read again, understand the breed and its needs. Get general advice on training and behaviour. There lots of information on internet.

As someone else said, training is as much about training the owner as the dog, if not more so.

Get your dog back on track health wise and then learn to train with your dog.

You've taken on a young dog of a high energy breed, with 3 young children that's not going to be easy. With the right kind of professional help and a lot of work you'll get there.

Like you Booyhoo, I never leave my dog with anyone either. Heard too many sad stories about dogs coming home from groomers all shaky; not because they've been badly treated, but just because certain experiences can really freak them out.

nurseneedshelp · 15/03/2013 22:12

You obviously really care about this dog.
Hope everything turns out ok op.

KeatsiePie · 15/03/2013 22:14

Not to push you Chocolate but you can call/chat online with the RSPCA 24/7, it seems. I'd ask them how soon they'll be getting out there and whether you should avoid warning the facility staff that you are reporting.

RSPCA call/chat info page www.rspca.org.uk/allaboutanimals/helpandadvice

sleeton · 15/03/2013 22:33

Hi, ChocolateBiscuitCake,

I am very sorry about your poor dog. You might want to add Trading Standards and the local authority Animal Inspector to your list of who to contact. Good luck.

Scuttlebutter · 15/03/2013 23:36

Hi, ChocolateBiscuitCake, hope I can help.

Let's break this down into two avenues - firstly, helping your dog now that he is back home. Have a look at the APDT website, and you'll see lots of lovely trainers, who all use positive, gentle methods. Pulling on the lead is one of the commonest problems with a boisterous young dog, but it's also happily one of the ones that can really turn round quite quickly. I'm attending training class with one of our dogs at the moment and there is the most wonderful, nutty, young choc lab there. When we started training, only six weeks ago, he was a complete loon, and trashed the church hall on the first night. Within three weeks there was an enormous improvement and by week 6 - magic. That's from a good trainer, committed owners (who are completely besotted by him) who practice what trainer says, and going to class for an hour a week. Our trainer is fabulous - kind, positive, funny and we've all learned so much. I can honestly say that going to class is one of the highlights of my week. Lots of trainers (ours included) often also run simple one-off workshops that just focus on loose lead walking, since it is such a fundamental for dog ownership.

You are taking care of the veterinary issues, which is great. Make sure your vet is aware of the circs and is documenting/photographing him. Now that he's home, be gentle, don't push him, and just let him settle back in - he's probably stressed and confused. It's still too early to say if he has any long lasting issues as a result of what he has been through - just keep an eye out for any signs of stress or trauma. I'd also endorse what previous posters have said about making absolutely sure your DC understand the dog has and NEEDS clear boundaries - no disturbing while he's asleep or eating for example.

Now there's the issue of the kennel/trainer, and how that is resolved. There are several red flags from your initial post - for instance the fact that they haven't spoken to you for four weeks. A friend who is a farmer has sent her BC pup away to learn how to be a sheepdog and she and the trainer are conversing every three or four days, often more often. You should have been getting very regular updates, including things like emails, video footage, and digital pictures. Any health issues such as you've listed should have been picked up and discussed at length with you, including any ongoing treatment etc.

Some questions about your trainer. How did you find him? Is he a member of any professional training body? What happens if you google him and the kennel separately? Does that throw up any other bad experiences by previous customers?

There is no point at all in contacting the RSPCA. Generally, where a premises is licensed, they have an agreement with Local Authorities that they will not intervene/investigate, since their argument is that this should be picked up by local Council. Your local Council is responsible for licensing this kennel and therefore on Monday this should be your first port of call. Usually the licensing of boarding kennels is undertaken by either Environmental Health or Trading Standards. You will need to report this to the Council where the kennel are,not your own if that is different. Most Councils now have on their websites, downloadable info about the licences. When you speak to them, state your complaint clearly and concisely. Ask for the following (you have the right to all these under FOI) - how long has the kennel been licensed as a boarding kennel, copies of all previous inspection reports for the last three years, copies of any correspondence relating to the licence conditions. Ask if anyone else has reported any problems/made complaints? Remember and bear in mind that the Council cannot act on any complaint about the quality of the training, only about the health of the dog. If you need more help with this, come back to me.

Depending on the trainer's professional body, I would also consider making a complaint through them. Some "training" bodies are little more than trade associations, so complaints will have little impact, while others are more serious and professional. Which one is he a member of?

I also think that the cloak of anonymity is not helping current or potential future customers. I can immediately take a guess who it might be - does the kennel name start with R?

You might also find it helpful to speak with Beverley Cuddy of Dogs Today magazine. Beverley is a great campaigner once she is involved in an issue and this is something with a great deal of relevance for many dog owners. I am so sorry to hear you've had this experience, and am wishing you and your dog all the best.

lisad123everybodydancenow · 16/03/2013 00:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 16/03/2013 00:22

You are right, OP, this isn't acceptable on the part of the kennels and "trainer"

To be honest, I always try to steer my clients away from these residential dog training programs, as I think the dog has to be trained by you to make him/ her resonsive to you. I am hugely sceptical about trainers who say they will "train" you dog in 4 weeks-your dog learns over weeks/ months, even years. My dog will recall to my DH, less easily to me, and not at all to anyone else!

You didn't do anything wrong, except to trust what turned out to be the wrong person, unfortunately. I would go ahead with your complaint, notify the RSPCA anyway (not sure how it works in England, but in Scotland, I think the SSPCA would be interested, judging from some of the cases I have been involved in with them) I'm sure your lovely boy will recover with plenty of tlc, good luck.