Dog Experts Please Help!

[zonedout]

Have posted here before asking about the realities and hardwork involved in having a puppy with young children as my last two puppies I had pre children (and the most recent one was 15 years ago so I have completely forgotten )

After much careful thought and consideration, I decided a pup would be the best option for us and I recently began my search. Sooner than expected I stumbled upon and visited the most fabulous litter from the loveliest, calmest mum and a fantastic vet nurse breeder who has 2 young children of her own living with the pups. So, my dilemma is that by the time I could collect the pup she will be 10 weeks old already and then I am going away on (a very rare but much needed) holiday 3 weeks later. The breeder said she would look after the pup while I'm away (would be 2 weeks in total). I would greatly appreciate any input on this as I am very worried about the possible consequences on the pup from a socialisation, bonding and training perspective. Many thanks for any insight!

Well I wouldn't say I was an expert but we did this 6 years ago and all went well. We got a yellow lab boy at 8 weeks for about 2 weeks and then he went back to breeder whilst we were on holiday. I thought his 'mum' would love seeing him again but apparently not!, she didn't want to know, but he hooked up with another puppy at the breeders and had a lovely time! We were all thrilled to take him home when we got back as was he, and it was as if we/he hadn't been away

Ah, that's an encouraging story, thank you

My worry is also that 'they' (the experts!) say that it's these early weeks and months that are so critical in terms of the pup's development and while I have no doubt the breeder is indeed very good she is also busy and wouldn't be able to devote the time socialising and training the pup during that crucial window of opportunity and by the time I got the pup back after my holiday she will already be coming up to 16 weeks.

Would the puppy be with other dogs at the breeders? As that is a huge part of socialising that would be covered. Also what breed is your puppy and would this make a difference? As i said mine is a lab and the saying is that they are born half trained . It wouldn't worry me to do this again, it really wasn't a problem as all just slotted immediately back into routine as before, once we were all home.

You will probably get the experts now coming on and saying absolutely not, but it worked for us.

Good point! The breeder has 6 of her own dogs of varying sizes so i assume (but should double check) that the pup would be together with them. I'm a tiny bit nervous to tell you the breed as its quite unusual (if you really want to know I will PM you!)and would completely out me but its a very large breed that makes the most wonderful, loyal and loving family pet with firm but gentle and consistent training. Being part of the family Us of utmost importance to this breed. It's very much a case of right pup (my heart is screaming for her!) but wrong timing. I just don't want to muck this up for the sake of the pup, my family and myself...

I really appreciate your input and feel very encouraged though...

I would say that if this pup is a genuinely home bred, with children, pup then leaving her with her mum for a bit longer will actually be a good thing. She may even be house trained :) Bonus

If she is going to be kennel bred then please think carefully - My DP (the stupid bloody idiot) on impulse bought a rotweiller pup that was about this age home. I went ballistic but conceded that it would be OK, but within two days i had seen enough "issues" with the dog to tell me that he was already nervous (not been in a house) and had serious possesion issues with food - I made DP take the pup back to the breeder - we lost the money that we paid for it and i did something that i always swore i would never do, i sent a dog back - Don't underestimate how angry i was - it nearly split us up.

Oh goodness, that sounds so awful and very very heartbreaking Sorry for you.

Yes, I have visited and there is absolutely no doubt that the pups are being reared inside (in the kitchen to be precise!) My younger dc performed a rather 'lively' song and dance for the pups and not one of them so much as blinked an eyelid... What worries me is both the backing and forthing at such a young age and the lack of consistency etc...

It's not ideal, but tbh I wouldn't worry about it too much - loads of rescue dogs have much worse starts and still end up fine for instance.

I'm now really curious as to what breed it is, lol

It was very sad zonedout - the dog came from the breeder that we got our first dog from. That dog was the kindest, softest, gentle giant you could ever hope for. So when DP "surprised" me with this puppy he was so full of good intention. I am an ex vet nurse and have lots of experience with dogs, had also rescued a rottie with aggression issues in the past, but our DD was only two and i knew there was no way i could keep this dog. I hope that he found a new home quickly but i do worry because he had some serious issues growing there and i was not in the right place to deal with them. This was about 5 years ago and i am feeling grrr towards DP just thinking about it

But, what you describe sounds fine but am wondering if maybe you could bare to leave the pup with the breeder until you come back? Maybe going round to take the dog for walks (you could get him vaccinated at 8 weeks and then full course at 10). What sort of dog is it?

Bear!!not bare!

I absolutely agree re rescue dogs turning out fine (and even brilliantly I have very seriously contemplated a rescue over the last year but have concluded that, due to various very valid reasons I would prefer to cut the risk out... But of course, doing what I'm proposing to do is potentially risky in terms of development I guess...

The pup is already 9 weeks and they are quite a distance from me so I couldn't just 'pop' round for walks etc.

I think you should do some reading about puppy socialization and then consider how realistic it would be for you to do all that in the time that you have available. For example, if you're going to be very busy in the two weeks before you go on holiday, it sounds like you will miss lots of socialization opportunities. On the other hand you might be able to set aside that time to socialize like mad.

Ian Dunbar has some good advice on socialization (look at the dog training textbook on dogstardaily), there's some other info here and lots of other places too. Donaldson's book The Culture Clash has a good section on socialization.

For example, ideally the puppy will have positive experiences with people with beards/canes/wheelchairs/sunglasses/hats/dancing/skipping/on crutches etc etc also washing machines/vacuum etc during the socialization period. I don't think anyone knows exactly when it ends, and it will vary depending on breed, but sometime between 3 months and 4-and-a-half months. It's probably more important with a large breed that might be difficult to control (from a size perspective) if it reacts badly to things.

It's not that you can't get dogs used to things if they don't meet them during the socialization period, it's just that it can take a long time and be hard work. The more socializing you can do, the better the dog will turn out. This is why dogs from puppy farms and many backyard breeders can be so fearful and difficult as adults - they aren't even socialized to a home environment to begin with.

Btw I am really curious to know what the breed is!

Thank you Redwing, your links are very interesting. I am re-reading Gwen Bailey's perfect puppy book at the moment too. I do remember a little, having raised two pups previously. I just had more time (and functioning brain cells!)then!

I'm also trying to remind myself that my second dog was never properly socialised with children as a pup and was 8 years old when my first dc was born. A sweeter, kinder, more gentle dog with children you couldn't wish to meet. And she is not known as a breed that is particularly great with children. Both of my dc's learned to walk holding onto her back. And she has helped several children overcome their phobias of dogs