Different dog styles.

[chubbymomie2012]

My partner and I both love dogs. However we have different "owner styles" he is very emotive And treats his previous pets like a baby and would have given them
The run of the house and furniture although they still had a good routine. I however love dogs but believe they are still animals and I am the leader of their pack of you like. I think they should be trained and kept to certain areas of the house. And never on the furniture.
With all this in mind he won't let us have a dog cos he thinks I don't care for them enough.
How can I persuade him I do and that it would be great for our DC's.
thanks in advance for your advice x

Pack theory!!! Argh.

There are several million threads atm explaining in detail why being the leader of the pack is outdated and nonsensical, please read them.

Going on the furniture has little bearing on a dogs behavior or training. Depending upon how far you to assert yourself as pack leader, your partner could be right in not allowing you a dog. I wouldn't have a dog if it was to be locked out of the family constantly. Dogs are social creatures. Locking them away for long periods of time is cruel.

Pack theory is bollocks a small amount of research on the internet will explain why also search the threads on mn there will be hundreds of them.

You do not have to be a leader of your dogs - dogs are honestly not trying to dominate us or take over the world by sitting on sofas

Read some decent literature:-

General dog books
Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know: What Dogs Think and K
now by Alexandra Horowitz

Bones Would Rain from the Sky: Deepening Our Relationships with Dogs by
Suzanne Clothier

How dogs learn by Burch and Bailey

Excel-Erated Learning: Explaining in Plain English How Dogs Learn and How
Best to Teach Them by Pamela J. Reid

Dog Language by Roger Abrantes

On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas

Canine Body Language: A Photographic Guide: Interpreting the Native
Language of the Domestic Dog by Brenda Aloff

Understanding the Silent Communication of Dogs by Rosie J. Lowry

Dominance theory is bollocks Books

Dominance in Dogs: Fact or Fiction? by Barry Eaton (small but vital book - easy and interesting)

In Defence of Dogs - Why Dogs Need Our Understanding by John Bradshaw The

Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson

Oh Behave by Jean Donaldson

Dominance Theory and Dogs by James O'Heare

Bonding With Your Dog by Victoria Schade

The Other End of the Leash: Why we do what we do around dogs by Patricia
McConnell

Dogs are from Neptune by Jean Donaldson

100 Silliest Things People Say About Dogs by Alexandra Semyonova

I wouldn't lock the dog away from the family! I simply wouldn't allow it to sleep in the bedrooms. I have grown up with dogs and they were never allowed upstairs. It never caused a problem with the dog. We always involved them
And took them On holiday with us. That's hardly locking them out of the family. Boundaries are healthy so long as they aren't extreme. At the end of the day it is still a dog not a human. Having that mind set does not make me a worse pet owner.

No problem with not letting the dog upstairs. I don't let dogs upstairs but that is because I am lazy and have 7 dogs often more and hate cleaning!

It is nothing to do with the dogs needs or being a leader

Cuebill - that's such a great list! We need a doghouse mobile library to share all this info!

I find it hard to "read" my dog - the behaviourist says it's her hairy face!

Mine aren't allowed upstairs, with the exception of Devil Dog, who sleeps on the landing and when needed in his bed, next to my bed.

Simply because 1) that is the cats domain and escape place when is bothered by the dogs and 2) there is too much dog and not enough bed and 3) It's where the kids leave toys scattered here, there and everywhere and 4) it's easier to just dog proof the bottom floors than the whole house.

It has nothing to do with showing them they are bottom of the pack.

How do you assert yourself as pack leader?

I don't have dogs sleeping upstairs or on furniture, for practical reasons nothing else.

But that's not really going to help you with your DH, lol.

I am on the fence about the Pack Theory thing, really. I don't think my dog is trying to dominate me by sitting on my sofa, but I do think he is likely to make it filthy and smelly and there will be less room for me. That's all there is to it really.

Discuss some ground rules with your partner first and find some compromises that you both agree to stick to.

I don't let my dogs upstairs or on the furniture, but I am always a bit at people whose dogs don't have anything soft and cosy to sleep on at all, and are limited to very small areas of the house where they end up spending most of their time alone. That's too harsh imho. There can be a sensible middle ground surely.

Perhaps that was a bad turn of Phrase. I had a Beagle up until 4 years ago when he sadly died. We had him 9 years. I had to be strict with him and give him defo ate boundaries. We did doggy agility 3 times a week to keep him from getting bored and we had a forest near us so walks were full of entertainment. At home he was allowed in the living room with us and the kitchen utility. But not in the dining room or up stairs. He was trained to listened and obeyed commands. He was not allowed on the furniture and we eventually trained him to stop jumping up on visitors. To me that was teaching him I'm the boss. That's what is so with any dog. Dh thinks that's too strict and unfair on a dog!

Well it depends how you intend to show you are "the leader of the pack"

I mean, pack theory is a very outdated theory but there are still people who insist in trying to continue it.

If my DH was so inclined to think he needed to "alpha roll" my dogs, keep them in one area of the house, stick his hands in their food whilst they are eating for absolutely no reason, and objected to them sleeping upstairs (on the bed sometimes) he wouldn't have anything to do with my dogs at all.
In fact he might discover he was at the bottom of the pack and wasn't allowed to eat before me, or come in a door before me.

He did try carrying a big stick once thanks to Mr Dickhead Milan
BigDog sat down and refused to walk.
LittleDog stole the stick and ran away.

That sounds fine to me, but it was simply training him to be a polite dog, not showing you are boss. What training methods did you use? Maybe that's why DH is against the idea.

I would be fine if those rules were imposed on my dogs, although I'd probably ignore the furniture rule. I like my dogs sitting by me and snuggling. I would compromise with dog blankets on the sofa to prevent them dirtying the sofa.

When most people mention pack theory what they usually mean is that they follow of set of overly harsh, pointless and frankly bizarre rules and use punishment more than they use treats and positive methods, which is why you were picked up on it immediately.

For me having a dog is like having children, well more the other way round because I had dogs first, so children are really high maintenance hard to train dogs, lol.

I have rules and boundaries, I'm in charge - but I don't need to arbitrarily prove that.

Hi Chubbymomie, when I clicked on this and saw you'd written 'leader of the pack if you like' in your OP I just knew you were going to get hit by the 'pack theory is completely discredited' evangelists! Yes it is, dog/human relations are far more complicated and fascinating than that...

I agree with you (and everyone else who's posted so far) - dogs are 100% part of the family downstairs and when out and about, but I don't need muddy feet in bedrooms, noses and paws on kitchen counters, and I don't like being jumped up on and I don't think anyone else does either.

Not sure what to suggest about persuading DH to your point of view though.

We took Our beagle to Puppy school and used wee boys of dog treat as rewards that's my training method. I suspect my own ignorance of the term
Pack leader has lead to the confusion.

If you used that term with DH and he has a deeper understanding of it, that could be the problem. I know why my DH mentions showing the dogs who is boss it immediately makes me want to beat him round the head with a wet fish

He doesn't do much to become pack leader, but the mere mention if it drives me nutty. He growls at them sometimes but that is about it.

Maybe you could compromise i.e. you will allow the dogs on the furniture, providing he agrees to keep them out of certain rooms? It's the furniture rule that would bug me, tbh. The rest are fine.