Our dogs have seriously fought tonight - broken my heart

[VirgoGrr]

Our two dogs have lived together for 6 months, since I moved in with DP with very little problem. They play together, eat together, curl up in the same bed.

Tonight, they have tried to kill each other. Serious fight, couldn't separate the, for a good 10 mins. Have been at emergency vets with both of them.

Big guy has big wound on chest, which they've just flushed out and a chunk out of the back of his front leg. Vet has stapled that.
Smaller girl has managed to bite her own face and get her lip stuck inside. Big guy has inflicted a few grazes on her, but I think most of the damage on both of them came from her. I think she was the aggressor and he was mostly defending himself. I'm being objective, that's not just because he's my dog.

I'm devastated at the damage that these two have done to each other, blood all over outside and kitchen floor. I'm just so shocked and upset because I thought they were getting along ok.
Vet bill £400 for tonight and will need more follow ups.
Do they learn from things like this? Both clearly feeling very poorly right now.

Poor you, I've been there. In our case it was puppy (likely staff cross whippet) fighting with old dog (westie). Puppy was shaking old dog like a rag, teeth clamped on his neck. I was hysterical, but managed to grab a bannister spindle (a lose one, not part of the staircase) and slipped it in between puppy's jaws to break the hold, while DH lifted puppy away from old dog.

The second time, we were able to react quicker and get in before he'd really taken hold, so the same spindle was used, but this time DH slipped it in front of puppy's chest to hold him back so that olds dog could escape.

Old dog now lives with my Mum and dad because he was so frightened of puppy and puppy will go for him at any opportunity

Feel for you, as this has happened with my current dog and his late 'sister'. Like yours they used to cuddle up, but would sometimes fight - he'd start it and she wouldn't back down. He ended up more badly hurt (but not as badly as yours). Do you know what prompted the fight? For example if they fought whilst you were feeding them then you could feed them in separate rooms in future. If they fought over a ball then maybe don't allow them balls indoors. On the last occasion they fought it was for no apparent reason. But the boy was on painkillers for arthritis. I took him back to the vet who upped the dose and he was OK after that. Good luck, it's certainly not a nice thing to witness. Are you OK or did you get bitten trying to separate them?

My older girl will kill my other girl if given a chance. We have dog gates and rules in place to make sure she never gets the chance. It isn't easy to manage, and I wouldn't recommend it if you have youg children who might not appreciate how important it is to keep them apart.

If you cannot identify a trigger, then I would keep them apart, and even if you can identify the trigger, never leave them alone together. A behaviourist may help but we took the decision that we would never trust the old girl, whatever a behaviourist said.

I hope your poor dogs are ok, and I hope you are ok, I know how stressful it can be.

There maybe hope , my mum has 2 terriers they are brother and sister. Generally they get along very well but on a couple of occasions,they're 10 , they have fought with bloody results. Nothing starts it ,just one looks at the other the wrong way . On one occasion my sister split them up and ended up needing stitches in her hands ! They still live together we are now just more vigilant for the signals .

Forgot to say its not possible to keep them separate as my mother already has an indoor cat that they both have to be kept away from him. So it's live together or one would have to go , which is not an option .

"I wouldn't recommend it if you have youg children who might not appreciate how important it is to keep them apart."

That's why older dog stays at Mum and Dad's now. 3 small children, one with SN. No way I could trust them to keep them apart.

I agree lougle , it would be a nightmare scenario to add children into the mix. Fortunately there are no children at my DMs and my children are older and have grown up with the rules about keeping dogs and cat separate .

It was food. I'm blaming myself now.
If there are leftovers, I usually split them between the bowls and then put their own food on top. Last night there was a couple of bits of pasta left in the drainer and I just dropped them in big guys bowl while he was eating.
Girl comes for a nosy, he growls at her and she bites him.
That's how it started. I feel guilty.

Virgo, if it's any consolation, that's what my dogs started fighting over. I was holding both bowls (stupidly) in one hand, calling older dog. Puppy waiting patiently but keenly. Older dog wanders in, puppy thinks 'no way you're having my dinner' and that's that

Well done for diagnosing the problem. Dogs are very keen on fairness and they love their routines and structure. Is the bitch Top Dog? Our youngest is very respectful of our elderly bitch, but he will have a go at the old boy. It is awful when these scraps happen and the house looks like a crime scene.

Don't blame yourself, we've all done similar things and felt bad. It's actually good news that you've identified the trigger. Try feeding them in separate rooms in future.

When I met DH, our 2 boys regularly fought and drew blood. It was awful and I wondered what would happen. It was always about food too.
Anyway - we went back to basics about food training for reinforcement which helped.
But.... The one thing that changed it was during one fight I was holding a plastic bottle of water. In the moment I threw water at them both (we'd tried different ways to separate them previously). It honestly was like I'd electrocuted them! They jumped apart, I then banished them both and I swear, since then, they've been fine!
I don't know if I have been lucky or whether the water helped. You can only try?

Water does work, thats what we always used at home if our dogs got to that state. Luckily very rare occurrence when we were growing up and always had 2 or 3 dogs. I've only kept singular since moving out of home, though if I was home full time, there would definately be more.
Glad they're ok now, now you know what it was over hopefully won't happen again...if it does a bowl of water does the trick safely.

With hindsight, I'm wishing I'd thought a bit more clearly at the time to get them to break it up more quickly, they probably wouldn't have hurt each other as badly.
What did it in the end was waving big guys lead at him and pretending I was going out. As he was just pinning her down and getting bitten by that point, he just got off and came wagging his tail.

It's made me a bit about her though. We were talking about ttc after Xmas. While she's been fine with children, that I've seen, she is a bit fear aggressive and I am now a bit wary of how she would be with a baby/toddler. Its going to be an issue, she's DPs dog.

It's comforting to hear that others have had dogs that scrap and then get along ok if you remove the trigger. How long do you keep them separate for? It's not an issue in our house, one is in the kitchen with a back door and one in the hall with a side door to outside. I've just been letting them out in shifts and they've been in bed mostly resting since thurs night.
The vet said use your judgement - I don't think they'll fight again, they've been crying at each other through the kitchen door. I'm more concerned about them trying to play when he has a bad leg and I want him to rest. Vet said don't keep them apart for too long or they will have to re-introduce themselves. Any thoughts?

Answering EasytoEatTiger, the pecking order is bit complex. He's always been quite 'alpha' with other dogs and he was initially in charge when we first came. She was a bit quiet and wary of him.

Now things have shifted a bit - he doesn't usually stand any messing but if they do 'wrestly play' then he rolls over and lets her pin him and lick his ears. He is very gentle generally and definitely more bark than bite.
She is much more serious. Just been looking at the holes in him today now that he's been cleaned up a bit. She really tried to bite his throat out.

In other news, they both have had another vet visit yesterday and are stocked up with anti biotics and painkiller for the next week. He has to go back Monday for a check. Vet wants to keep a close eye on the leg for any signs of infection. (please keep him in your thoughts, he's quite perky today but vet has said 50/50 chance anti bis will work with no further intervention)
Bill has come to £525 so far. :(