To wonder at this latest idea of dog training - the crate

[Whatnowffs]

I'm very dubious about it if i am honest, but i say this a the owner of two little fuckers, one of which has since we had him in march (hes a rescue) systematically destroyed my house and my sex life (sleeps in our bed). So maybe im not the best person to comment!!!!

This really isn't a thread about a thread, but it was inspired by a thread on here at the moment where someone is struggling with crate training and made a comment that she has to have him trained so she can leave him alone in the house.

I will probably get flammed to within an inch of my life but to me, if i dog is creating merry hell because it doesn't want to be kept confined then just don't do it? Also, i think there is so much potential for missuse - locking a dog in a crate all day while you go out for instance? This can't be right??

I'm not really buying the "but the dog needs a secure area to call its own, it likes it once it gets used to it" either. Yes, they need a safe and secure area where it will be left alone. One of my JRTs likes his basket under the small table by the sofa. The other one likes to lay with me ALL THE FECKING TIME! So its horses for courses surely?

I am not saying the crate is bad - but just that surely if people are having issues getting the dog to accept it, it is because it doesn't come naturally to what is essentially a social animal to be incarcerated on its own. Yes, in the end, like the less fortunate of pavlov's dogs, they accept it as inevitable and probably don't have any lasting damage and come to enjoy the safe area etc, but it seems like a whole lot of hassle to me, just give the dog a bed at the foot of your bed, he doesn't want to be on his own, so why make him?

Agree with Honey. Depends on the dog and your lifestyle. One of my dogs loved her crate and the other one hated it. Similarly, not all dogs need one. It's certainly nice to have the option as long as you're willing to be flexible/don't abuse them (crates, not dogs) .

Mine is snoozing happily in his at the moment having had his walk, tea and play with the dC's. The door is open as it is all day but he will always go in there to sleep as it is in the warmest part of the house and very very cosy. He can come and go as he pleases but as he is only 6 months old I do shut the door if we leave him (rarely and not for long). He just settles down and naps, no yowling, scratching or trying to get out - I would think again about it if I thought he wasn't happy.

Im not dissing the crate, just wondering about it and interested in other peoples thoughts, i have one, i dont use it as a traning aid and am a bit unsure as i know of at least two people who have misused them. But one of them is an idiot anyway and the other whilst lovely leaves her poor dog all alone all day in a toddler pen - a springer spaniel penned up all day and then she wonders why he is mental

Narked, if you had had my experience of standing in a cold dog turd that my puppy left as I strolled to the loo at 2am, you may have been more inclined towards them. I did actually think they were not a nice idea at first, however scraping dog shit out of my toenails and scrubbing my foot in dettol was an even less nice idea.
Also, my dog is, even at 21 months old, Very very destructive, she will chew anything in range if left alone, chair legs, the skirting boards, shoes, her bed, the corners of the drawers, electrical cables. In the same way that you wouldn't leave a toddler loose in a room with a fistful of felt tip pens and a blank wall, I don't leave a young dog unsupervised in a room full of potentially harmful items.

My experience is that the sort of idiots that lock there dog in a crate all day would be the same sort of idiots who locked them in the kitchen/utility room/garage all day.

I think if you see a crate being abused that will influence your attitude.

I think they are excellent for puppys as they are often in a room that is utilised by the house a lot, often the kitchen or a living room. Pup gets over exited pup can be put in a safe place to calm down and observe or sleep, or is opened as soon as pup is calm, pup quickly learns that crate is a safe place to get out te way when things get a bit too much, and also learns that lots of people around means that a calm doggy can mingle, a leaping slathering maniac is removed from the social situation, but still close to its family.

Thats an example of a crate used positively.

A dog that needs exercise, play and stimulation and is a it hyper because it wants interaction being locked in a crate rather than played with is bad.
A dog locked and left in the crate each and every time people visit is bad.

These are examples of a crate being abused.

Advantages of crates

Secure place for a dog to settle
Makes a great safe den for the dog
Relaxes dog and encourages calm behaviour
Excellent tool for house training
Excellent tool for teaching impulse control
Excellent tool for teaching crate games and stimulating the dogs
Excellent tool for keeping the dog safe
Excellent tool for keeping the house clean
Excellent tool for preventing separation
Prevents destructive behaviour
Means dog will feel secure anywhere that it has its crate, car, vets, new house, kennels etc.
Save pounds in chewed items when a puppy
You always know where to look for anything if the dog has stolen it
A visible barrier that tells children, other adults to leave the dog alone
The dogs deserves to have its "own" space as much as the other family members
I could go on but I doubt anyone is reading any further anyway!

Disadvantages of crate
Idiots who abuse them and can not be arsed to use them correctly.

Idiots who abuse them and can not be arsed to use them correctly.

this is what the last owners of newdog did ( i think) I read it all to make sure i was doing it properly

I did it as never had a dog before and after looking into it I felt it was right for us. He slept without any trouble from the start and if I went on school run, popped out etc he would go in it. But other than that we never pushed the issue and it was never used as a punishment. He always preferred the sofa lol and now has that instead of the crate ( lovely to get rid of it). I can honestly say he never chewed anything indoors and I do think this helped.

A crate is an essential part of training a puppy if you follow methods like Ian Dunbar's 'errorless toilet training' and 'errorless chew training'. Basically the crate is used as a safe place for the puppy and so that it never gets the chance to toilet in the wrong place or chew the wrong thing to begin with (because it really won't want to toilet in its crate, but doesn't have the same natural instinct about the rest of the house).

In some parts of the world - e.g. parts of the US that are susceptible to hurricanes - it's a really good idea to have dogs crate-trained just in case of a natural disaster. Much easier for the dogs if they are already used to being in their crates.

'You always know where to look for anything if the dog has stolen it'

Both of mine are crate trained - I find them useful for if we're going to training days so I can pop the dogs in them whilst I use the loo or eat lunch. They also travel in them happily, and I think the crate environment really helped our rescue settle in as she could take herself off when things got too much for her.

However, I have known people use them for housetraining in what verges in a cruel way to me (ie making a dog hold on for longer than he really can). Like most have said though they're fine if used sensibly.

Neighbours crate the dog when they go out (not often, anyway). He's a badly socialised & insecure rescue & barked frantically previously if left alone for any time. He likes the crate, it makes him feel confident.

Seems to me that if an owner is going to use crate stupidly they are probably a stupid owner in lots of other ways, too. Not the crate's fault.

My dogs get very distressed if they have to sleep somewhere that isn't small and confined. I mistakenly bought a couple of big soft dog beds as I thought they would prefer them to the crates. I was woken by one dog hurling himself at the kitchen door and crying in distress, so I put the crate back and he went in and went to sleep quite happily.

Make of that what you will OP.

Ideally my puppy would LOVE his crate. I made it so cosy, I did all the 'right' stuff to get him to fall in love with it. He hated it. First night was ok, second night it was a struggle to get him in there, third night he HOWLED and howled and howled and howled. I knew I was supposed to just push on and he'd get used to it, but I already knew he hated it in the day and never EVER went near it when he needed a nap. If I popped him in he fought it. So I got up, let him out and gave him the dining room to himself. He slept all night and has done ever since. He's never ONCE done a wee/poo in there, though I religiously put paper down for weeks. Not bad given he was 8 weeks old. That said, he wasn't a chewer. Emphasis on 'wasn't'...he's now 8 months and recently chewed a wicker basket very badly overnight. He's now made a start on a chest of drawers. Bitter Apple spray has been bought....

anyway, I guess like all these things the answer is 'it depends'. Some dogs love them and some don't and, for us, the battle wasn't worth fighting. I do rather wish I had a place for him to 'go' as he does get in the way a bit sometimes. But that is a small price to pay for a puppy that slept through the night, and no accidents from 8 weeks old.

you should have called ths thread The Great Crate Debate