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Original poster

Getting a springer spaniel puppy, how important is it that it is kc reg??

33 replies

applegate · 21/09/2012 08:35

So we have done lots of research and are going to go for a springer spaniel, I have phoned about several litters to find out info and have narrowed it down to two that sounded like just what we are looking fro and we would like to go and see but..... one litter is 80 miles away, however sound lovely but only 2 puppies left and are more pricey. The other litter is 5 miles down the road, 7 puppies left out of 9 and are much cheaper; this litter is not kc reg. The lady said that although she had paperwork for mum she didn't send it off.
I am a bit torn, the money doesn't hugely worry me because I feel that this is a family dog that we will have for years so I won't worry in a year if it was £150 more or not, and we will not want to breed or anything. But should I be looking at one that is KC reg to ensure that it is a more reputable breeder and definitely hasn't had anything else bred into it??
Or am I being silly to worry and should just go and look at the closer ones?
Advice please?!

OP posts:
Original poster
applegate · 21/09/2012 08:36

sorry meant this to go in the doghouse but can't now cancel it!!

OP posts:
tabulahrasa · 21/09/2012 08:42

It's not important in that you need it - but if a litter is eligible for KC registration then why would they not do it? It's easy and cheap enough to do, so it usually means that they shouldn't really have bred the litter.

Mama1980 · 21/09/2012 08:45

It's jot important really unless you're planning to show them or anything. But the fact they say they are eligible and yet they haven't rings slight alarm bells for me, it's very cheap and easy if they really have all the relevant paperwork etc. I have a lurcher /springer cross she's gorgeous Smile

D0oinMeCleanin · 21/09/2012 09:04

The fact that she has 7 pups left out of 9 is indication enough that she is not a great breeder. Most, if not all, reputable breeders start looking for homes for the pups as soon as they plan the breeding.

Although the relevant health checks are what you should be most concerned about. I've never wanted to own a springer puppy so I haven't got a clue what these are but your research should have told you.

Are you worried about going to a reputable breeder for the welfare and health of mum and pups or do you just want to make sure you get your money's worth? Health testing would come way up my list of priorities. Way above whether the pup is a cross breed or KC registered. BYBs and puppy farmers can KC register their pups. The kennel club really isn't very good at ensuring the welfare of dogs registered with them. They don't care as long as they get their money.

To find a decent breeder you should contact your local breed club and be prepared to wait. They'll also more expensive then the ones in your local paper. This isn't so the breeder makes more money it is to cover the extra costs of caring for the bitch and puppies properly before sale.

Original poster
applegate · 21/09/2012 09:26

It's not at all to do with getting my moneys worth, this will be a family dog and welfare/ health etc is at the top of my list of priorities. I guess really what I am asking is how much emphasis should I be putting on this or as long as health checks have been done does it matter if they are KC reg. I asked the lady with 7 pups if health checks had been done and she said yes but rather than being a breeder she is someone who has bred just one litter from their family dog.
I grew up with dogs but this is the first one we have had as a family and i just want to make sure we are buying from the right place and asking the rihgt questions.

OP posts:
tabulahrasa · 21/09/2012 09:56

If the mother is definitely KC registered, then there's a few reasons why the puppies can't be.

The mother has an endorsement on her registration, this means that her original breeder has not lifted it because they don't think she should be bred from.

The father is not KC registered in which case you have little idea what's in his background at all or he has an endorsement on his registration.

The mother is too young, too old, has had too many litters or litters too close together.

Your best case is that you have one parent who shouldn't be bred from because it's not to type rather than for health or any other reason...but then why breed from it?

Health tests on puppies are good, but it's much more important that the parents have had the relevant breed tests for inherited conditions, most of those can only be done as adults.

To be honest - the rules for KC registration are the absolute bare minimum and if they couldn't even be bothered doing that, I'd be worried about what else they haven't done.

TheCalmingManatee · 21/09/2012 10:30

Its about who is the better, more knowledgable breeder - this would be quite difficult to decide. You don't want to be supporting a back-yard breeder, but then im sure that back-yard breeders get their pups registered.

I would base my decision on what you see when you go there, what feeling you get from the place.

I wanted a border terrier, we looked at quite a few, all KC registered, not "back-yard" breeders but got the impression that the people, knowledgable as they were, were in it for the money, and it didn't feel right. So i broke every rule in the dog buying book - i answered an add in the local free adds for a border/patterdale (did a quick research on the patts) and went to a family home which had basically put their bitch with the woman's fathers patterdale (im not even sure the bitch was a full BT if im honest) to "let her have a litter". Totally the "wrong" thing. But there were four pups - one had been sold already, the other two, they informed me, they couldn't bear to part with HmmGrin They weren't THAT knowledgable but had told me all the advice they were given from their vets etc (i'm ex vet nurse so didn't need advice per se, but it was good to know that they had taken an active inerest) had the puppies first jab done (parvo) and wormed etc. It just FELT right - on paper, totally wrong, but that was 5 years ago and my dog is just lovely, a lovely family pet who i wouldnt change for the world - i still look broodily at the border terriers sometimes, but DDog was The one :)

So what im saying is, on paper, matters not - but go with the person who cares the most, thats what i'd do. To be fair, the woman with 7 out of nine pups left doesn't sound brilliant, my friend bred from her dog for the first time, she had homes for the pups before they were born (some even conceived i think!). Oh and prepare to be questioned, if the breeder doesn't show any concern that you know what you are taking on - YOU DO KNOW SPRINGERS ARE MENTAL DON'T YOU Grin then id be dubious

daisydotandgertie · 21/09/2012 10:31

Tabulahrasa has said everything I would have said, but I'd add walk away from the unregistered litter.

Well bred puppies are expensive. The costs are made up of stud fees, health tests on parents, good quality food for the pregnant bitch and then for the puppies, veterinary care, additional heating and laundry. Raising a litter properly is often a loss making exercise!

Research the relevant health tests for your breed and make sure they've been done. The tests are no guarantee but are the most effort anyone can put into trying to ensure they have bred a healthy litter.

EdgarAllanPond · 21/09/2012 10:42

"
To be honest - the rules for KC registration are the absolute bare minimum and if they couldn't even be bothered doing that, I'd be worried about what else they haven't done."

exactly this from tabulahrosa

if you want to buy a pedigree spaniel, google the breed club - breed club members usually have a higher standard to abide by than the KC -

better still contact the breed club rescue rep - they may have a puppy or dog in rescue, if not, they can recommend a breeder with a litter.

any way you go about it, keep your eyes open, make sure you see the litter with bitch, the health check documents, google the breeders number to make sure it doesn't bring up puppies of any other litter for sale. They should ask you more questions than you ask them.

if pedigree isn't important at all, don't buy a puppy with unsure parentage, better to get a rescue.

Mama1980 · 21/09/2012 10:44

I just want to add have you considered a rescue centre? I got my girl from a accidental litter at one.

EdgarAllanPond · 21/09/2012 10:47

eg a rescue like this

TheCalmingManatee · 21/09/2012 10:51

should not have clicked the link, should not have clicked the link Grin

EdgarAllanPond · 21/09/2012 10:52

the breed club also a good place to ask about health testing required.

EdgarAllanPond · 21/09/2012 10:53

they're always so damned cute.
:)

Original poster
applegate · 21/09/2012 11:33

All brilliant advice, a rescue dog sounds great but think we are going with the original plan. I have rung the furthest away one and we are going to see them on sunday, I think you are right about getting the right 'feel' about people. This breeder asked me as many if not more questions about us than I did about the puppies and mum, which was reassuring. so fingers crossed for sunday!

OP posts:
PuddinAforeDinner · 21/09/2012 12:13

I have two springers (pics on profile) and would advise anyone looking for a KC Registered as opposed to rescue to make sure the breeder you pick is a KC Assured Breeder.

Most important would be to make sure that both parents have had the relevant health checks. Although I do understand that this will mean that the pup will be more expensive.

Go with your gut instinct, this should tell you if you have picked a good breeder/pup.

Good luck, can't wait to see pics Wink

ExitPursuedByABear · 21/09/2012 12:19

Why oh why have you opted for a springer?

(Pics also on my profile)

PuddinAforeDinner · 21/09/2012 12:24

ExitPursuedByABear love your pics.

Great top knot there Grin

Original poster
applegate · 21/09/2012 12:49

what gorgeous pictures!
why a springer? We have got several friends with springers and have spent a lot of time with them so definitely have our eyes open about their need for exercise and stimulation but just love them as a breed. I grew up with a combination of labradors and english setters, and have not really been drawn towards either of them, I can't quite put my finger on it but just love them and have waited years for me to be at home and the children to be a bit bigger so we could get one!

OP posts:
ExitPursuedByABear · 21/09/2012 12:55

Someone on here once described my boy as being a cross between a teddy bear and a Jacob's Sheep. Although he is sporting a summer clip at the moment so looks a bit of a wuss.

He is my first ever dog and I cannot imagine every having any other breed. I love him totally but he can be a bloody nightmare.

Good luck and look forward to seeing your puppy pics.

Puddin - your boys are very handsome.

Lonecatwithkitten · 21/09/2012 14:00

Peer group hip scoring (the best way) can only be done on KC registered dogs as to submit x-rays you have to have a KC number. I would never buy a springer without parents being hip scored.

YouveCatToBeKittenMe · 21/09/2012 15:02
ExitPursuedByABear · 21/09/2012 15:18

My springer was from a local breeder who has bred lots of mad hair spaniels. We see them around regularly and meet his mum on walks so I am hoping that he has not inherited anything horrid.

Having said that, friends of mine purchased a springer from a registered breeder and he died of something horrid. They called on the breeder when passing and as soon as she opened the door and saw them she knew they had come to tell her the dod had died as all the litter had gone the same way.

So you never know.

YouveCat Like your pic of the pheasant. Was that at a shoot or was it caught? Mine's tally so far is a Swoose, a duck and three Canada Geese. Blush