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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Eldest dog is showing her age, am worried

21 replies

Ullena · 15/09/2012 22:24

Our eldest dog is going to be ten in October. Over the past few months, she has gotten steadily less active.

She spends most of the day sleeping, and on walks she becomes tired after about half an hour. She was previously one of those dogs that never tired, by the way.

She is also off her food, and we are lucky if she will eat even a quarter of her typical ration. Her teeth are fine and her weight is stable however her eyesight and hearing are deteriorating. And she is getting very stiff in all four of her legs. On top of this she will occasionally wet herself in her sleep, and she gets very distressed on these occasions as shr has always been a very fastidious dog.

We are very upset, as we know now that the decision will probably have to be made within the next year, at the latest. Probably sooner, according to the vet, as she is really not herself and there are days when she seems so unhappy.

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Canidae · 15/09/2012 22:56

I'm sorry. Is she on any joint supplements at all? The incontinence may be able to be managed with meds but that is something your vet would need to decide.

Ullena · 15/09/2012 23:59

The vet is not keen to start meds for the incontinance as it is still only occasional and he wants to wait and see if it is only her sleeping more. Her sleep pattern has changed drastically and it is possible she just is being caught short. Her kidneys are functioning well so that is good.

We have her on glucosomaine (spelling?) and she also gets cod liver oil in her food. We are taking it one day at a time: if she ever seems to have just had enough, then we will do what has to be done. I think being less able to run and play is making her depressed. She was just so active all her life, she was never still, iykwim. And now, half an hour off the lead and she is exhausted.

Our other two are well able for more and she misses going with them. So she will lie on the sofa and watch for them to come home, as we walk them separately now so as not to risk eldest collapsing.

She is asleep at the moment. My collie is washing her ears and face. DHs lab is snuggled next to her and one of the cats is behind them purring. Eldest dog is the centre of our pack, and very much still lead dog! We are in regular contact with our vet. Eldest dog is, in his opinion, in peak health overall but just slowly wearing out. It is simple old age, and all we can do is make sure she is comfortable until her time comes.

She is a lurcher collie cross and had an awful start in life before she came to us. Was from a partially feral litter of fifteen, and is the only one to have lived past eighteen months due to them being so difficult to train that everyone else gave up and PTS. She has been difficult but is also the most loyal, devoted, gentle dog we have ever met.

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Ullena · 16/09/2012 00:01

The vet said that she could possibly live for another two years at most, but that her health may well start to deteriorate rapidly before then.

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EasyToEatTiger · 16/09/2012 09:47

Our eldest has become quite stiff too. She has been given Cartrophen injections that may be able to help her joints as she is arthritic. We are going down this route before we take the painkiller option. So far (she's had 3/4 injections) there has been some improvement and she has been leaping about as she hasn't leapt for a long time. There are good days and less good days. She has been on a supplement, so this is the first time we are taking the vet route.There are so many joint supplements, some help some dogs, and others help others. It's a bit of a minefield. Your dog may have lost her appetite if she is in pain. I have read (possibly on MN) that hydrotherapy can be beneficial to dogs with stiffness.. Where in the world are you?

Ullena · 16/09/2012 12:33

Northern Ireland. We take her swimming whenever possible, as she still enjoys this. Back to the vet on Monday to discuss whether she needs medication. Do have to wonder at what point are we keeping her going for us rather than her, but want to discuss all possible options. I will keep you posted.

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EasyToEatTiger · 16/09/2012 16:07

What a difficult time you must be having.Is your vet certain that it's just old age which is affecting your dog? The puppy of a neighbour has been diagnosed with Lymes disease. It's not easy to pick up on as the symtoms could easily be other things. It may be worth asking if there are known cases in your area.

DogsCock · 17/09/2012 13:10

My old boy has cartrophen injections, plus green lipped mussel (a capsule in food morning and evening) also 5 ml apple cider vinegar twice a day mixed in. He has rallied round with all this, so maybe worth a try?

Cuebill · 17/09/2012 18:47

10 really is not that old. I would be hassling the vet for specific reasons for why she is now more tired etc.

There is a lot the vet should be trying before saying she only has a year left tbh.

Scuttlebutter · 17/09/2012 20:30

I agree with Cuebill. I'm usually reluctant to criticise vets, and I realise that a short post can only paraphrase a number of discussions, but nine is not that old, for many breeds, especially for a lurcher which often live well into their mid teens.

I'd be asking my vet for a discussion on managing a number of issues - the continence for a start - that can be easily managed with medication.

If she is stiff and in pain, then of course she won't be up to long walks, and her fitness will decrease, and she will be entering a vicious spiral of decline and depression. However, I'd be asking for a specific diagnosis. Does she have arthritis, and if so where? If she does, then there is a great deal that can be done to manage it. Firstly, she can and should be receiving analgesics. Secondly, you can look at NSAIDs - our old girl was on Previcox and it worked wonders. Cartrophen injections work brilliantly for some people (we tried and it didn't for us, but it's worth a try). i'd also recommend hydrotherapy - the key is to keep as much movement in her joints as possible and to keep the muscle wasteage to a minimum. Hydrotherapy again gave us at least a year of good quality of life for our girl. I'd also be looking at things like making sure she is warm, lies on an orthopaedic bed, boosting dietary supplements etc. (Don't forget to use canine not human glucosamine - formulation and uptake is different).

Poor eyesight and hearing are not by themselves reasons for PTS, and there are plenty of deaf and blind dogs that manage brilliantly to still enjoy walks and playing provided it is managed carefully.

With diet, especially as she is a lurcher, I'd be asking for a checkup on those teeth and if she doesn't like what you are feeding her, why not simply change?

We were very lucky several years ago to have a vet who totally transformed my thinking on older dogs and we've been blessed to have had some wonderful older dogs in our lives including one who had arthritis. The senior years, if managed well, can be a time of absolute joy and I would not have missed the richness and special relationship we had for the world, particularly as both dogs had such excellent quality of life.

Wishing you all the best.

pegster · 17/09/2012 20:39

I think you should be pushing to investigate some of your dogs issues rather than putting them down to old age, especially at 10. There are excellent meds for arthritis which would be worth trialling. Plus I would want to know that cardiovascular system was ok in case that is contributing to lack of energy.
There is a drug called vivitonin which is very useful for multiple signs of ageing including senile brain changes which would be worth considering if heart & joints ok

Ullena · 18/09/2012 12:01

She is on canine glucosamine, and whilst she will take cod liver oil, she loathes apple cider vinegar - have a large container of it sitting grinning at me now! Brilliant stuff if she would touch it...

Food wise, the main issue is that she has always been picky over food. If she is upset she goes off her food and has to be tempted back onto it. Also she has to have a diet that is 100% natural - no additives of any kind. So her meals are hand prepared daily, and she gets as much variety in them as is possible. Today is grilled chicken liver and sardine (head and spine removed, other bones left in), with boiled rice and pureed vegetables. Also a couple of raw chicken wings for supper. Yes, we are spoiling her, but hey, she is old and stiff, and it is the least we can do.

Sleeping arrangements are as follows:
Daytime, she has an old extra soft armchair next to a warm radiator that she curls up on. Nighttime, she curls up under the quilt at our toes.

Her teeth are great, they are incredibly clean and strong, and her heart is still as strong as ever. She is by no means blind or deaf yet, but not as aware and she is not happy about that. I think the fact that she knows she is less able is annoying her, as she has always been the top dog in the group, and now of course is less qualified for that position. Although the other two are perfectly happy as minions, thankfully. Still, she is less confident when on walks, especially if we meet another dog. So we try to keep her brain occupied - she has always been too clever really. Opens doors, that sort of thing.

She has not had any more accidents toilet wise since my last post, so crossing my fingers that she was just extra tired. We have started her on lots of short walks where we try getting her to go a bit slower and enjoy the scenery - part of the problem is that she still wants to run as fast as she ever did, and this exhausts her. But she of course only knows that she enjoys the running part...

Anyhow, went to a different vet after your comments. He said she could make it to fifteen tops, more likely twelve, due to her overall physical condition. We are sadly not talking about a well bred dog here. Mum was feral and very poorly put together, dad was a pet but sadly the result of puppy farming. So genetic stuff is not the best there. Mum was PTS due to attacking a child, about a year after we got eldest dog. Dad lived to be nine, then suffered renal failure.

Still with proper care, new vet believes she can reach twelve to fifteen. However, now that the effects of aging are starting, she will only get worse, and I guess he still wants us to be prepared to do the right thing by her other than bury our heads in the sand. We will of course attempt medical treatments, but there will be a point when that becomes more selfish than caring and how do you spot that point coming?

We both have this horrid image of us trying to keep her going and her hating us for it...this happened to one of my parents' cats: they could not bear to part with him, and kept trying new things, and he was just a shell of himself by the end. DH has said he will make the decision, as she is closest to him emotionally and he feels that it should be his job to decide. I have promised to go with them when it is time.

Eldest dog is currently trotting about the back garden, tucked up snugly in her little coat, and occasionally headsmacking the collie when he gets too excited. Yup, still boss dog!

I will speak to our new vet regarding vivitonin, thank you. He has booked us in for this Saturday coming. He wants to look into other options regarding her joints.

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Ullena · 18/09/2012 12:06

Oh, ought to have said, we have decided to just feed her lots of small meals as if she were a young puppy, instead of feeding twice daily. This seems to have improved her attitude towards food.

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ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 18/09/2012 12:10

12-15 years is a good age for a dog, though, so don't be too disheartened. It sounds like you're doing everything right and that your dog will enjoy her dotage :)

Ullena · 18/09/2012 12:32

Thank you. (Attempts to make smiley work, fails.)

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Scuttlebutter · 18/09/2012 13:02

Congratulations on seeing a new vet who appears to be taking a much more constructive and positive approach. I think what I and others were trying to say is not that you should keep her alive at all costs but that good veterinary intervention, plus committed lifestyle management can lead to a rich, healthy and enjoyable life for a senior dog.

No-one thinks any less of a pensioner if they no longer enjoy running marathons - there's nothing wrong with managing expectations and definitely changing routines to suit new realities. Lots of shorter walks, for instance sounds great.

As someone who has deeply loved senior dogs, I'd say that there are several factors which are crucial in understanding the right time. Firstly, build a relationship of trust and mutual respect with your vet - their professional judgement is immensely helpful and there is nothing wrong with having regular discussions about quality of life. I have nothing but praise for several positive, constructive and helpful vets who discussed these concerns with us and always helped us consider our options. Secondly, once you have an understanding of her condition, become your own expert. Read up on drugs, treatments, outcomes etc. and understand the likely path of events, so you are prepared as much as possible. Thirdly, throw out ideas about years or months - take things day to day. Treasure each special moment and love unconditionally. Fourthly, think about the quality of life issues that will help you make the decisions. There is an excellent American model developed by a vet called the HHHMMM scale which gives a range of indicators - see link here. Lastly, make sure you are aggressive in managing pain.

Good luck. Smile

Ullena · 18/09/2012 14:51

Scuttlebutter, thank you so much for that link. It has really put things into perspective and I am much less worried now Smile

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Hopeforever · 18/09/2012 14:56

Age expectancy for dogs depends so much on ther size and breed. Our dog has a life exptancy of 8-10 years because of her breed :(

She's almost 10 and showing her age in the last months too. Losing weight, sleeping more and tiring quickly.

Ullena · 18/09/2012 15:07

Sorry to hear that Hopeforever Sad What breed is she?

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Hopeforever · 18/09/2012 15:12

Flat coat retriever, didn't know when we rehomed her that 10 years would be good going.

What breed is your wonderful old girl?

Ullena · 18/09/2012 15:23

Her mum was a lurcher (collie/whippet type) and her dad was a labrador. So I guess Lurador, if I had to coin a fancy term Grin

Flat coated retrievers are lovely, I never knew they were short lived either.

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Ullena · 18/09/2012 15:27

I do tend to class her as a lurcher or a collie cross though, as the labrador side is very hard to spot in her.

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