URGENT ADVICE PLEASE-puppy tried to bite/attack me last night, off to vets in few hours

[shinky]

Hi,sorry,will try to make this brief, just desperate for some quick advice on how to approach this with my vets in a couple of hours. Puppy is 7 months old,and is chihuahua x griffon and has been displaying worrying behaviour issues for a while now but last night,just before bed he was lying on the sofa. I went to pick him off to let him out before he went in his crate and he went to attack me. Wasn't a quick snap/growl either but a prolonged savage type attack where he had his mouth clamped around my hand and was writhing around attacking my hand on the 3 occasions i attempted to move him.
He didnt actually sink his teeth in,just left my skin grazed. Obviously very upset about this and off to vets for all health checks etc as a starting point,as to where to go from here, but what checks should i be insisting on? I know they will take temperature and all this stuff, but would i be considered extreme to demand blood tests/thyroid tests etc. Would be very greatful to any advice received as to what i should be making sure is checked by the vets when i take him? Thanks in advance

I'm not sure what tests he will need, but I would imagine most of the problem was you physically moving him.

It is so tempting to do this with little dogs, but would you attempt the same with a very large dog? As far as he is concerned he is enjoying a lovley snooze in a comfy spot when he is turfed off for no reason.

If you would like him to get off the sofa you need to use your voice and make it worth his while, so tell him 'shinkydog off' while tempting him to the floor with a high value treat and then maybe having a quick game with him. In no time at all he will be happing straight down, tail wagging as soon as you ask.

Are you and your hand okay? Did he break the skin?

Horrible as it is when dogs do this, he is trying to tell you to stop and if you went in three times, then he can see you are clearly ignoring him and so is upping the ante to try and make a point. Clearly not okay behaviour but it does illustrate the point that you should never try to get physical with your dog no matter what their size.

Hope you are both okay today and things go more smoothly in the future. If you ahven't already then maybe some training classes would be in order?

Is it a sofa issue do you think? As in, the pup sees the sofa as 'his' space and is guarding it?

Sorry just re-read your op and saw that he just grazed your skin. while this must have been very upsetting for you, I really think it is just a communication issue and you need to re-think your interactions with him.

Ah, cross posted with Gobbler :) We use 'floor' for our hound.

He may not be..but..little dogs tend to be more humanised and spoilt than bigger dogs and you have to be careful dogs don't climb to be leader of the pack.

As the above poster said, respect him and his environment. I wonder if you socialise him with other dogs at training classes. Great places to share stories and pick up tips for a happy dog but an even happier owner

Dogs don't really work like that Chickens, especially not 7 month old pups, it is more a case of expectation and frustration, he is normally allowed to sleep on the sofa so expects to be allowed to continue, he is expressing his frustration at being physically moved in a way he does not wish to be and is trying to communicate his desire to be left alone.

Dog are deeply self serving and the idea of them having a 'desire to please their owner' is a massive myth. All dogs are just working hard at trying to get the good things in life. Show them what behaviours your require in order to earn those things and you will have a very well behaved dog.

Hi, yes i am very upset today,but more because of the way he turned. He is a much loved and wanted family pet and i am very concerned this wont be a one off. At the moment he is displaying all the signs of dominance aggression towards humans and not 100% sure how to handle this as advice is so conflicting(first time dog owner) Yes,think it was a 'sofa' issue and wouldnt have been concerned if it was just a 'snap' iykwim, but was more like a full blown attack, and i may be being naive but am very worried that he thinks its ok to respond like that.
He isnt the most obedient of dogs,and is very much a dog that will respond to praise/treats only when it suits. Have been to training classes,that was hopeless as he didnt really respond to them either?
Will be speaking to the vet about a one to one behaviourist later, hopefully this may be more successful do you think?

I don't for one minute believe that an unrestrained dig "tries" to attack. It either does or it doesn't. You pup just sounds like you shocked him and with regards to his age that is slightly more acceptable than an adult dog doing the same. If you have ever watched a group of young dogs together, this reaction is common and natural.

I do however think you are doing the right and responsible thing by taking him for a check up as he may have a sore spot you aggravated.

Gobblersknob do you really believe that. Because I disagree entirely. People say the same about horses but if you haven't had that bond between yourself and an animal it is understandable to believe that.

Hi Shinky. A behaviourist that can come to your home is a great idea.

I can imagine that you must feel very shocked and concerned. However this is quite common behaviour for little dogs with big dog personality. It does not mean he is an aggressive dog but will need training.

Do take him or a check up - contact a trainer from APDT they will have seen this many many many times and will have many solutions for you.

First thing would be to lure him off the sofa with a titbit. (no you are not bribing him or giving in to him but showing him the appropriate behaiviour) Do not go to pull him of or push him off yet. There is a great game that you can build up to playing with your dog eg grab his collar click and treat and grab collar and gently pull BUT you will need to build up to this with your guy.

JUSTME, ok, to phrase it better, he DID attack me,not 'tried'. I suppose im just trying to make light of it a bit because i just want advice and half expected to be over run with posters telling me to 'rehome' etc cause he had shown aggression. That is the last thing i want to do,my kids adore him,and so do we, but am also aware that if this becomes his 'nature' rather than a 'one off' ,then i would have an awful decision to make in the future. I dont want to do that, hence why i want advice, as to what i may be doing wrong etc.
Also,definitely didn't shock dog. He comes on settee every night for a cuddle next to one of us,refuses to budge when time for bed,so always say something like 'come on shinkys dog' and then kind of budge him with my hands so he gets up and jumps off. Same thing every night, so he knew what i was doing

My dog doesn't want to get off the sofa either. He cops a deaf 'un and even feigns sleep if he can get away with it . I have to say 'floor' in my 'I mean it, buster' voice before he will reluctantly slither to the ground and huffily strop off to his own bed.

I thought that dogs do resource guard, gobblers?

Thankyou LOOKBEHIND. CUEBILL, yes i am very concerned. My dog definitely displays 'big dog personality' and has a VERY dominant personality,picked up by most people who meet him.
You say it is very common, but do you mean this as in a warning snap, is very common? Mine attacked me in a very savage,prolonged manner,which is why im so concerned. Would be very relieved to know to know that its not unusual at this age when pushing boundaries to react this extreme

I think in your shoes I'd get in the behaviourist. I'd be out of my depth.

Ah okay, apologies then.
Though you did say he didn't break the skin? Which made me think that if he really did want a chunk from you as much as he was possibly saying "rack off and leave me be".

Have you thought about getting a specialist dog therapist or trainer out. Your dog is still very young and you have time on your side.

Justme, read the thread. Jeez.

Justme23 I totally belive that, I have had many, many dogs and love them all to distraction.

It is not an idea of mine, but current canine thinking, the disneyfied myth of dog desperate to please master is considered to be the biggest dis-sevice we do to our dogs. It in no way interferes with a bond with your animal, just a true understanding of how they work

Op, I'm sorry and I can see you are upset but to be left with a few grazes is not a 'savage attack'.

You say yourself that this is something you do every night, it sounds like he has come to expect something form you which he does not like (being removed from the sofa and turfed out for a wee), he has probably been trying hard to communicate his displeasure over it for a long time in far more subtle ways.

It is just a training issue and very easily solved, but for some reason you don't seem awfully keen on that idea and woud rather rush to label your dog with huge problems that he doesn't have. The only real problem is your lack of desire to communicate with your dog in a different manner.

Gobblers, the OP has said that he's going to talk to his vet about a behaviourist.
It's entirely natural to be upset when your dog is agressive towards you. You don't have to have a limb hanging by a thread to feel your dog has behaved in a way you don't want.

Gobblers I know I know, but I can't imagine looking at any of my dogs as completely self serving, they all seem to live for one of the family, DP dog is obsessed with him, as is mine ( I wake up every morning to a malamut X staring at me almost nose to nose) they have nothing to gain by this it just seems to be their aim in life to be near us at all times haha.

And my old horse actually saved my life on more than one occasion.

But I do see your point. :)

Perhaps savage is not the correct word then,i am just trying to descibe it more aptly so that it wasnt mistaken for a one off 'warning snap'
GOBBLERS, I am open to any advice,but where on earth in my thread have i come across as not being keen to solve the issue with training I have been to training classes, am off to vets later for advice/checkover and to get a list of behaviourists that i can contact.I am on here asking for advice from people more experienced than me so that i can rectify what it is that im doing wrong. This only happened last night,what else would you like me to do in that short amount of time? What a ridiculous and unhelpful assumption to throw at me.
I am only stating what people have said to me,including his vet,and the owner of the training classes that i have taken him to, that he is a very dominant personality dog, of course i am worried that this has esculated,and want to know if it is a common problem. Hardly labeling my dog fgs

If he isn't responding to treats it means you have the wrong treats. Finding which treats work with your dog can really make the difference to training. For maddog for example any old revolting dried treat will work inside the home, but at the park he isn't remotely interested - there getting a ball thrown is his reward/reinforcement and he will listen and concentrate intently. I need to work more on a separate reinforcer for when out and about but think I will have to look at liver or something.

Thanks SAINTLY, yes,probably wrong treats. Have tried chicken/ham/sausage/lots of fuss and praise etc, he just will take it or leave it really. Hopefully the behaviourist can help us 'tune' into what makes him tick, how to communicate/discipline him differently as the standard approaches dont really seem to be very effective with him at the moment. Was quite dissapointed with the training classes really as they didnt really give any effective advice as to how to communicate/deal with him when he is being dominant towards other people/dogs. Just kept advising to socialize more,which we were already doing on a daily basis any way. Just feel out of depth really now due to my lack of experience,so hopefully behaviorist can help. Thanks for the advice though guys. Very much appreciated

Op, I heve repeatedly expressed my sympathy and asked after you and stated I can totally understand you being upset.

I wish you all the best with helping your dog.

If you can, try not to train with treats.

Enthusiasm and praise and consistency should always come before treat training.

Shinky yes it is quite common. Also it can look terrifying eg lips rolled back and very very scary.

I would really ask for help and then you will be on the right training programme for your dog. A behaviourist will be able to read the body language quickly and get you on the right track very soon. You should see a huge improvement and probably not encounter this situation again. I wish you luck.

(Ignore any people who say do not train with treats or rewards!)