If you have a lead aggressive dog would you walk it in an area that is predominantly off lead?

[D0oinMeCleanin]

I understand the need to walk near other dogs, to socialise and retrain, but I would never in a million years have put Devil Dog through the ordeal of walking across an off lead area while he was leashed during his fear-aggression training.

I was walking with my Dad and his dogs (and mine) earlier and one of his -who is always off in the distance somewhere- ran up to a leashed dog, now I totally agree with everyone who is going to come along and say his dog should be trained better and should not be off leash until he is, this is an argument I have had many times with him. I have suggested training techniques and even offered to buy the tools he'd need to train (e.g whistle, treats, longline etc) but he's not interested.

However surely the couple with the aggressive dog were being unfair to their dog walking him in an area where it is common knowledge that 99.99% of the dogs there are off lead and will play together?

There are multiple on lead parks and country walks and beaches around here. Why pick the off lead one and then complain when dogs are off lead?

My Dad chooses this area to walk in 1) because it is quiet and he often goes for weeks of walking there nightly without seeing another soul and 2) because it is the accepted off lead part of the beach where most people are happy for their dogs to play. He'd never dream of letting his dogs off lead in area where it is both on and off lead and more control is expected because he doesn't have control over that particular dog.

Surely they are not complaining about off lead dogs-but untrained off lead dogs?

I don´t see why they can´t walk where they want tbh.

Of course they can walk where they like without being bombarded by off lead dogs.

Maybe they are just visiting the area and do not know it is is popular dog walking area maybe they are assessing a rescue or foster dog, maybe they are having a training session

Why is there so much lack of tolerance among dog walkers. If you have no control of your off lead dog he should be on a lead. The owners with the reactive dogs are making sure their dog does not interfere with others so why not off lead dogs

There is no lack of tolerance. As I said I fully agree my dad should train his dogs better. I called mine back to me as soon as I spotted them, mainly because the amount of yelling and swearing they were doing was attracting the attention of every dog within a 50 mile radius. My two prefer playing with other off lead dogs and ignore dogs who are walking nicely by their owners side or on a lead.

I just think it is unduly stressful to their dog to be around off lead dogs racing about here, there and everywhere when there are equally nice on lead areas, that are easier to get to. Even if they don't run up to their dog, they might race past to get to something else, which would be stressful for their dog. This area is used for giving dogs space to run.

They were from our area and it was their dog or one they'd had a while. Once My Dad's dog realised their's was not gonna play and left them (literally only about 40 seconds, but still too long, I know) the woman with one of the dogs shouted to her DH "This happens every fucking time we come here. Dogs should be kept on fucking leads."

Then why ask the question if you are so sure the owner was wrong in your own mind?

Because I was wondering what the thinking could be behind taking a leash aggressive dog to an off lead area, like this one is (i.e all dogs off lead, all racing around, all playing together etc)

I never said my Dad was not in the wrong. He was.

"He'd never dream of letting his dogs off lead in area where it is both on and off lead and more control is expected because he doesn't have control over that particular dog."

But that doesn´t mean that no dogs on leads should use the area??

I do see your point doin'.

Altho in theory an on lead aggressive dog has as much right as anyone else, I wouldn't take one of mine who is agressive on lead to a highly populated dog area because i know there will be dogs whose recall is iffy and it will stress both me and ddog out.

I completley agree d0oin
We get the same problem. We have a park for off lead dogs, just one. 5 minutes away is a park where dogs have to be on the lead.

On a very regular basis we encounter lead aggressive dogs. I simply cannot understand why you choose to walk your dog in the off lead park and then shout at other owners for choosing to have their dogs off lead.

This is pretty much the only area for a long way where off lead dogs are allowed. If you know it's an off lead area, surely you have to accept the fact there will be off lead dogs and it's probably a good idea to either go elsewhere or accept that fact?

When we had our oldest dog, his recall was shocking. We spent countless hours in that park training him, admittedly it took a long time before he took any notice and used to bound off, apparently oblivious to calling, whistling, anything at all.
We took him there because it's a recognized off lead park. But we had quite a few irate owners with lead aggressive dogs who kept saying-but he should be on a lead.

Why?

We never ever let him off lead anywhere else and his recall improved.

Maybe you should ask yourself why there are so many lead aggressive dogs. A primary reason will be that they have been hassled by so many off lead dogs.

Owners with reactive dogs should be commended and praised and yes be given some tolerance. It is a hard lonely life with a reactive dog but the owners have not given up with their dogs but are prepared to have their life made harder to accommodate the dogs. Personally I think they deserve a medal. Many people would just have rehomed the dogs or PTS.

Basic manners if you see an on lead dog, just control your dog while you pass, it causes you no harm and should be easy if you all have these super trained dogs. If you don't then don't criticize those that are doing so.

But why walk them in an off lead area?
My dogs were all rescues with various degrees of behavioural problems, I did not walk them in an off lead area until they were less aggressive/ unruly/scared of their own shadows.

I know exactly what it is like having a reactive dog. I have had one. Never in a million years would I have walked him in this particular part of the beach until his issue was sorted.

Mine are not super trained. They just prefer playing with dogs who can run with them and as we walk with a total of five dogs, other dogs just aren't as interesting to them, Screeching is interesting to them, which is why I called them back when the screeching started.

I understand the need for on lead dogs to have space, having been there, done that. I know how annoying and scary it is when you are walking with a reactive dog and another dog approaches with their owner miles behind. I don't allow mine to stray too far and their recall is fine.

I also understand that owners of reactive dogs do have a responsibility to keep their dog happy and relaxed and walking in off lead space, where dogs will be off lead and running about, chasing each other etc. is not going to make their dog happy and relaxed.

I quickly learnt which areas to avoid and which areas were good for meeting dogs to train with. I totally avoided the area we were in last night from the start, knowing exactly what it was like from spending much of childhood chasing a doberman around and/or being chased by/chasing unknown dogs.

Yes, my dad's dog should have come back the second he was called and not 40 seconds later. That was my dad's fault and something he really ought to address but otoh these owners really should have picked somewhere more suitable to walk. Such as the stretch of beach 10 minutes down the road where leads are required.

But just let people be. What business is it of yours where they choose to walk their dogs? They know their dogs, they have as much right to walk where they please. Get over it!

I have a lead aggressive dog, and I walk her in off lead areas to get her used to the idea that other dogs can exist and nothing bad will happen. Of course, I don't yell at other dog owners, she's my dog and her problems are my problems.

And I must say, she is getting better as she gets used to it. She let another dog sniff her bottom the other day, and didn't erupt into a volley of anxious barking.

I never said anything to them Janeswell, nor would I have. I am pondering on an anonymous forum as to what the thinking might be behind taking their dog to that area, knowing before hand what it is like. That's all.

You seem very defensive Janes. It wasn't you was it? A quick tip, shouting "Call your dog off. Mine is reactive" is more likely to gain you an understanding reaction and some help then "Get your fucking dog under control. It should be on a fucking lead. Get your dog now NOW, you fucking arsehole." while there is a young child about.

Also if you go to the beach front it is a lovely walk, similar kind of area and all dogs are on leads March through to Sept. After that most of the parks have on lead only areas.

No it was not me.

I am not being defensive just wondering why it matters so much to you what other people choose to do when it does not involve you, apart from having control of your dog.

It does seems odd to me you are so bothered by a dog being walked on a lead and saying it was the wrong thing to do

I do the same colditz. Once my dogs have started to look to me for reassurance/ instruction, I make a point of taking them to busy offlead places so they can learn that nothing bad will happen. We always get dogs running up to us and ignoring their owners's summonses but that is what I want the dogs to learn to relax with. I've never shouted at another owner but have hauled particularly amorous dogs off mine with a few choice words!

That's interesting Colditz. Mine went the opposite and any uncontrolled greeting would have set our training back so I walked him in on lead areas and carefully chose calm dogs to ask if he could be introduced to. Most owners were happy to help me.

Of course you still got the occasional numpty who would let their dog approach mine despite me saying that mine was reactive, but it did not happen every walk, like this couple claimed. Maybe once a week or so. Annoying, yes. And scary, especially when it was a large breed dog because mine is just a wee terrier and wouldn't stand a chance if a fight broke out because of his behaviour.

I am not very good with the terminology and understanding but with my dog he is fine watching dogs, and likes to watch them. If he is off his lead he will tend to stay away from dogs and won't approach them but if one comes to him he doesn't seem to have the right body language to please the other dog and has been attacked numerous times for no obvious reason. He is scared of dogs for this reason, he tends to be much worse on the lead but we do have to put him on the lead so we can control him if he is going into a frenzy.

We walk in various places mainly on lead except if we can see for miles there are no other dogs about and that noone is going to come over to him, then we let him off his lead because he needs to have a run and loves being off his lead.

The main problem we have come across is if we see another dog then we will recall our dog who does come back to us. after doing a quick scan to see if its anything worth chasing but then if another dog is off the lead it comes over to us and a growling snarling match between the two dogs normally starts. I understand the point about lead and off lead walk areas, but in the case of my dog he is inbetween the groups. He loves being off lead and the only open spaces where we can safely let him and be aware of our surroundings are open plan off lead areas. So if I didn't let him off here he would never get off his lead and he would be miserable, his behaviour is anxiety based and he is getting better as he gets older.

We do try and walk him on the local beach tide times allowing around 10pm-12am because it fits in better with us and less likely of any encounters so he can have a god run without the stress.

It's a hard situation, but I do see your point.

Just in the interests of research .... how many of theselead aggressive dogs are Jack Russells?

Mine has JRT in him. He's a JRT/Fox Terrier. These dogs on the beach were a GSD and a small black terrier type. I was too far away to see what kind of terrier, but not a JRT.

My dogs are always lead walked when there are any other dogs around. Anywhere. Why?

People whose dogs are "friendly" will often bounce inbetween my leaded dogs barking. They will - quite rightly - express their disapproval.

I then get, "Get your bloody dogs under control". Often women, sometimes men.

They tend to have it curtly explained that off the lead amongst my dogs isn't under control, and to get it sorted sharpish; before I unlead my dogs.

There's an off-lead area near me that is fenced and has signs by the entrance saying no on-lead dogs are allowed. It's a good idea because then it's clear that you don't take a dog there if it's not sociable.

Whatever the circumstances, there's no excuse for language like that, especially in front of children. (though some children would subvert it beautifully by giggling at the rude words).

It doesn't seem like the best place for them to walk their dog, given that someone is bound to have an untrained dog or be using it for training. But still, they are allowed to be there, and your dad - I am sure you are sick of telling him to train the dog!

In this couple's defence I am not entirely sure they realised dd1 was a child and not another dog. They were quite a distance away and she was lolloping around on all fours darting in out of the tall grass pretending to be a whippet

And yes I am bloody sick of the arguments we have over that particular dog, thankfully my Dad is not a total eejit. This dog is very placid and if another dog went to attack him he would run not retaliate, he also does not jump all over other dogs, he slowly meanders towards them and has a little sniff. Once he realises they don't want to play he walks off again. He'd have left this couple alone a lot quicker was it not for the screeching keeping his attention.

He wouldn't be off lead at all if he was at all aggressive. I've already been told after one of his (a different one) attacked one of mine for no apparent reason if any of his dogs "turn" they'd be given to me to be "fixed" because he hasn't the time or energy to deal with an aggressive dog.

All of our dogs used to be very well trained when I was young, but he suffers from really bad depression now. Watching his dogs run is all he takes pleasure from and he's not been able to find the motivation to do any concrete training with them. As far as he is concerned his dog is not a danger, even to aggressive dogs, so all is good, he can simply enjoy him. What he doesn't realise is that the sight of such a large and powerful dog trotting towards your unsure dog is enough to cause your blood to run cold. The people his dog walks up to do not know that his dog is as docile as we know he is.

A designated off lead only area is a great idea, I wish our council would pull their fingers out and do something useful for dogs, other than erect 'nature ponds' in the middle of designated off lead areas

DOoin the Dog-Fixer

Sorry about your dad though. It doesn't really sound like his dog is a problem, apart from not being trained. In many circumstances it wouldn't matter, except there seem to be lots of dogs with ishoos these days. Then it can be a really hard thing to deal with, but you know all that.

Yeah, we are really lucky with our off-lead area. It's one of the few places we can let the husky run around free. He always checks the perimeter first in case a gap has appeared through which he might escape . I wouldn't like a 'nature pond' in the middle of it - too much mud!