Advice needed - do I pay for my dog's mistake?

[slipslider]

My puppy has a liking for bags, pockets and anything like socks etc. After numerous trips/calls to the vets after swallowing.chewing undesirables I now warn all guests to put things out of his reach including handbags. It is an ongoing joke with my friends about how he is and the things he has chewed - batteries, paracetamol, face cream etc so far. Anyway one friend this morning did not heed this advice...she stayed at my house last night and left her handbag within reach of the dog in her bedroom...when she went to the bathroom he picked out her glasses and chewed them to pieces. Now I am torn as what to do. As a decent person I know it is my dog's fault and therefore as a responsible owner I should foot the bill but on the other hand, this person is well aware and has been told on numerous occasions to keep things out of the reach of his mouth! Do I pay for a new pair? Do I offer a token gesture amount or do I expect her to pay for the new glasses? Any advice would be welcomed!

Sorry I was answering Slipslider who said this pup has never seen anxious unfortunately I assumed to mean been anxious* not LookBehindYou comments. Must make my posts clearer

Cake you say I have caused an issue by not crating my dog....so did we have so many badly behaved dogs before crates became the 'in thing'. I fear not! I have had dogs for the past 30 years....all 6 of them have lived without a crate and all had different personalities. Yet there were no 'issues'....puppies learn in the same manner as children do.....over time! He is a puppy and so he is learning to know what is right and wrong...

LookBehindYou...you make an assumption based on? Unfortunately my friends would say I am far from soft...

I based my assumption on you not stopping your dog from being naughty.

And you know I don't stop him because?? I was asleep this morning, said friend got up and it was about 6am....should I have been awake watching him? So when your child next misbehaves...because you didn't immediately stop it from happening I am within my rights to say you are a soft parent who does not stop your child from being naughty! You are not doing your duty as a parent!
You fail to mention the work I put in trying to teach him what is acceptable to chew through positive reinforcement, play and discipline. But you would not know that because you failed to ask, failed to read what was previously written and made assumptions because you judge ppl on what you feel rather than ask and base your judgement on facts.

I said it kindly. Calling someone a softie is not exactly a huge insult.
I then answered in the same rude vein as you.

I guess you didn't get the answers you wanted.

Can I ask someone who has used a crate...how does it teach them what is acceptable to chew? How does it stop them other than not allowing them to reach objects in the same way that keeping them out of reach would do?

I had my answer this morning and the problem has been resolved but I have left ppl to continue with their posts about crates, dog behaviour etc because it seems some lack manners in the way they speak to others on here!

And as for being rude...I asked a question. You then said I didn't stop my dog...I wasn't the one being rude initially I asked what assumption you based your judgement...I think it is a fair question!

You asked how crates prevent these behaviours - from my previous post...

every time he finds something and gains pleasure from chewing it, that behaviour is reinforced in his mind - you need to prevent it happening in the first place so that the behaviour does not become ingrained

When you are supervising the pup during the day and you find him chewing something it shouldn't, you can say 'leave it' or similar, and give him something that belongs to him as an alternative. Dogs are very aware of their resources and will quickly learn that something of 'his' is ok to chew, something that isn't his is not ok. That said, all toys etc actually belong to you, you just allow him to play with them, but I'm sure you get my drift.

The point is, at night, you can't supervise this, so a crate is necessary to prevent bad habits forming.

Furthermore, as dogs don't want to foul their own nest, crates train dog's bladders to go longer between wees as they will hold it until let out (according to our vet, this is a physiological thing, as well as psychological).

You can't keep everything out of reach, my dog was fond of chewing skirting boards, bookcases, edges of carpet etc. It was only by literally either having him in the crate, or never letting him out of my sight for about 8 months that he learnt.

Why do you have such an issue with crates? I take your point that they are a recent preference of behaviourists, but then again, it is only in the last 20 years or so that the training of dogs was expected...

Crates create good behaviours (see my previous post):

By teaching a dog to relax
By making a dog feel secure so no need for stress related behaviour eg chewing, chasing, nipping
teach dog boundaries and acceptable behaviour indoors without need for punishment or excessive training
by allowing a dog access to the toy he is allowed or can chew
For teaching self control
Are excellent for teaching crate games which will amuse stimulate and tire out most puppies.

Dogs should not be put in a crate for hours on end and never have a collar on when in crates. However I look at them as the chill room at a nightclub a place to relax chill out and completely relax that has to good for most dogs.

Not all dogs need crates some are just born chilled, however for some dogs they are fantastic, not essential but do make training easier.

I disagree that crates are a recent preference dogs - they have been used in training for well over 30 years.

Have they? I seem to find that it is the 'older generation' who seem to have issues with crates. My parents were horrified at the idea but had a whole pack of basically feral dogs who they thought most amusing as they terrorrised the neighbourhood

I'm prepared to stand corrected

Thank you for your response....I will explain my issues with crates. my dog will relax in his den and feel safe and secure in there which is how I create his safe haven...but there is no door to keep him in.
I think my beef is that ppl use it so dogs can't get hold of things they are too bone idle to pick up/switch off/make safe etc. I think I feel some ppl put their dogs in crates to stop them getting at things they shouldn't.....my opinion is if ppl got off their backsides and kept their houses tidy then there would be nothing for the dogs to get hold of (other than said carpet, skirting etc).

I feel that we wouldn't stick our crawling babies in a crate to stop them getting hold of things we didn't want. Possibly a play pen but these are larger with adequate room for said baby to move, stand and play. We would be less lazy and keep things out of their reach...no parent in their right minds would lock a baby in a crate for an hour at a time as it would be cruel and so I feel it the same for dogs. Animals should be free to move and have access to proper movement and so this is what I form my basis on. I always expect the question of how much room I have in my house when I look for a dog and I think what difference does it matter if u have a huge country house or a little bedsit if the pet is going to spend 2/3 hours a day on and off + night times in a 1m x 1m box unable to move properly?

I just think they prevent the issues happening but not actually showing him what he can not chew....as he could very easily chew anything when he gets out of the cage. It is not saying this is what you can chew/can not chew but merely keeping him away from the undesirables! Like a baby in a play pen....baby does not learn not to eat the dogs dinner while in the playpen but is merely unable to do so, when he/she gets out and they see the dogs dinner waiting...bingo! ha! Maybe I am unsure how this teaches them not to chew certain things and if someone could tell me more I would be obliged but I can't see how they actually 'learn' not to chew things they see around the house.

My dog has access to all his toys while I am out of the house, I can confine him to a single room if need be but he still has access to walk and play properly in that area. He is locked out of certain rooms all the time regardless (kitchen, bedrooms and bathroom) but can play properly with his toys (he is dextrous and uses his paws instead of his mouth to play so rolling a football in a crate would not amuse him).

Slipslider, you might be interested to read Ian Dunbar on errorless housetraining and errorless chew toy training, both of which rely on confinement. It teaches them not to chew things because they never get the chance to learn that behaviour in the first place - hence there is no need to teach them not to do it. They already find that their chewing needs are fulfilled from their own doggy toys.

The reason a crate is small is so that it is like a den. If there is too much room, then it doesn't function as a den. The dog doesn't need more than space to turn around and lie down. It's a place for settling in, not for playing.

A crate can be useful for all the reasons that Cuebill said. Obviously it would be cruel to leave a dog in a crate for too long, so there has to be a balance - but no one is advocating crating a dog all the time.

Slipslider, it's also not a good idea for your dog to have access to all of his toys at once. It's a route to him getting bored with them quite quickly and losing interest. Best thing to do is keep them all in a box and only bring one or two out at a time for him to play with. This makes them extra exciting and the dog is more likely to learn more quickly that toys are a good thing to play with/chew on.

My husband and I also have a little ritual where we pretend to play with the toy for 5 minutes ourselves before handing it over to our dog - yes we look silly, but it winds her up into a frenzy whereby she thinks said toy is the Best Thing Ever once it's given to her.

Our dog is also a chewer, but she's never chewed anything she shouldn't. We don't necessarily always give her traditional dog toys to play with - she also likes destroying plastic bottles and cardboard boxes stuffed with treats :)

Of course you can train your dog how you like and it is none of my business how you do it.

However your comments are interesting. We do crate our babies - what is a cot/buggy but an area that is safe for them that they can not get out of!

Also agree with restricting toy access and making sure that they are swopped around regularly to keep the dogs interest. Also if you leave them lying around the dog is being taught it is ok to pick thins up and chew.

If dog is placed in crate with a yummy bone for half and hour two lessons are being taught and you have a very happy dog.

If the dog had taken- say- a bar of chocolate out of your friend's bag and eaten it, who do you think should pay the vets bills

Oh, and was somebody suggesting that people shouldn't have picnics on dog friendly beaches? Really?

Seeker what they probably meant was why not go to the dog free beaches? There are plenty of them.

People on our local beach bring their children to the off lead part and then whinge when dogs are off lead because their children are scared

The best part of the beach is dog free March through to September.

So are you saying that it's ok for a dog to do whatever it wants if it's a dig friendly beach? Surely even there dogs shouldn't eat people's picnics- or, as in one memorable incident - demolish my ds's sandcastle then pee on him?

Of course they should be allowed to go of their leads and have fun- but surely still basic dog manners apply?

To clarify, this is a small section of miles upon miles of dog free beach. There are clear signs up all over the place (inc signposts on the sand) that designate that section of the beach a 'Dog Exercise Area'. So technically its not a 'dog friendly beach' but an actual area that is specifically for people to exercise their dogs.

This family had set up beach camp squarely in the middle of it and were the only people on this section of the beach.

I do take your point entirely that it was ultimately my fault. With the benefit of hindsight we did trust him off lead too soon, but to be fair, he had demonstrated pretty much 100% recall in 'non distraction' situations. We redoubled out efforts, and practiced recall in the garden with plates of freshly fried bacon and borrowed the neighbour's kids to create more distractions.

However, I do still believe, as in the OP's situation, that the parents were at least partly to blame; if you're going to have a picnic, why not move the 20 metres or so to the dog-free section?

Anyway, as I said, I did the decent thing and paid (with good grace) for them to have lunch. Unless there are serious extenuating circumstances, dogs are the owner's responsibility and any poor behaviour on the dog's part is the fault of the owner.

Ah, then in those circumstances I agree
With you- they were daft. Where we are, all but one of the beaches is dogless all summer and the other is dog friendly all year. So people and dogs have to co exist. Hence my remark about basic doggy manners. But i can see how a roast chicken might be more than flesh and paw could resist,

I'd pay, without a doubt.