Advice on getting teen border collie - long

[Kleptronic]

I have a DS (8) and I was brought up with dogs (GSDs and spaniels) my parents have a springer and miniature schnauzer. DS goes out with his Grandad and the dogs 2/3 times a week. I want a dog, he wants a dog. I've always wanted a dog. I mind my parents' dogs when they are on holiday.

I know we can't have a puppy. He knows we can't have a puppy. I work full time, and there's just the two of us. There is a 2 year old collie boy someone in my work needs re-homing, they have to move to a rented house and can't take him with them. DS knows he'll have to come out with the dog in the morning before school and after, come rain, hail or shine, 365.

We have been to see this lad and he is a bloody brilliant dog; he is cleverer than me, sociable (many cuddles for me and he doesn't even know me), trained (DS got him to sit, wait to be told to get a thrown treat, then get treat; this beautiful boy did it, all quivering pleasedness), good with children (lives with a 5 and 18 month old). This dog is an absolute dream. I heart him.

I would like advice on how to settle him. Really, though, I want someone to tell me not to take him - I feel he deserves better than me! We live next to massive fields/canal efforts. We will take him out for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening. I have scoped out a dog walker to come in the day and take him out for half an hour while I'm at work. There are agility and flyball places near me, this dog would excel at those, I am going to take him there if he is mine. I asked the owner how he is on his own and she said he's been left from 8 until 6 at night without a problem (on occasion); when she was in hospital he went to her mother's without a problem, he's adaptable. He is crate trained. I have a small garden and would get a kennel; it would be kong popsicle when I go to work, dog walker, then out again when I got home. Maximum 4 hours alone each time. I know, that is a long, long time.

This dog is so clever, and so loving, he's a special dog, I've known 6 dogs (well) in my life, and he is awesome, of course they all were in their ways, but this dog - well I am smitten. He's the best dog in the world.

So, sorry for the massive ramble, but I'm not sure we will be good enough, he's a crazy teen although well mannered, will he be happy? How can I make him happy? You see the owner said, when I was arranging to see him, if you like him, will you be taking him with you? I was a bit privately eh? about that, because I thought my house would be vetted, I'd take him out with them a few times, he'd come to mine, he'd stay overnight, and then I'd take him...I don't want him to go to anyone else really, after that. I told them I can't take him until I'm off work with my DS in a couple of weeks, which was fine.

Do you think I can give him what he needs, given the arrangements I've detailed? My parents are, don't get a collie, they need too much to do. I feel like this is the dog for us though, my DS loves him, he did what the kid said, what else can I say. Nothing, I've said too much already! Feck. If not, can I never have a dog?

Get the bloody dog! :)

Kennel outside? In all weathers? Will dog bark?

I had a collie, if they don't get enough exercise they can be destructive as in chewed through the kitchen door but the plans you have in place with dog walker etc sound fine

collies are very much one owner dogs so your DS needs to understand that this will be you and not to undermine his training -dogs can quickly be untrained!

get the dog!

We have 3 fabulous collies. They are not the nutters people often talk about. Our youngest in particular, really likes his regimes. He has his schedule, and he likes it when we stick to it after a fashion. I think dogs are amazingly adaptable, and it sounds really as though the dog would have a great life - walk in the morning, mid-day run-about with a dog walker, walk in the evening, patch outside...agility classes and training... You would put in a lot of work and get a huge amount of pleasure.

Re vetting... Our house wasn't vetted before we got our first dog. I think people like to see that you are prepared, that the garden/outside space is dog-proof, and that you can deal with the mud and hair that come with dogs. If there is any question in your mind that you might at any point want to give up the dog, don't get it. If it would fill a gaping hole...

I am going to go against the grain here, and say please don't get this dog.

I am hearing alarm bells ring. The fact that they have deliberately selected accommodation that cannot take dogs and that they are desperately trying to get shot of him onto you are major, MAJOR red flags, especially as he is a teenager, and going through the most challenging times.

Suggest to the owner that they should rehome this dog via a specialist rescue such as Wiccaweys. I would also recommend you have a good, long chat to Wiccaweys yourself about collie issues - they can provide specialist advice about living with a teenage collie and can tell you if what you think is feasible.

More generally, I would never advise this sort of private rehoming - if it goes wrong, you have no back up, no support and no comeback.

I do think you could provide a home for a dog, but not this one.

not a good idea imo - these don't make great pets

Just outside in the summer for him to prance about and dig, not for me! Inside when it's cold.

I think the owners would not sanction Wiccaways (I found their site in the course of my research, and speaking with them is a good idea!). I do not myself understand how this situation could have come about, as so much seems to have been put into him. I think the owners would see it as a failure if he didn't go to a private home but went to a rescue. I am leaving a lot of my conjecture out here, as I am leery of this being seen, but suffice it to say I don't understand.

Thank you all for your replies, I really appreciate it. If the dog comes to me, he stays with me. I am serious about this dog, or any dog's welfare, which is why I asked. I sometimes think only the well off or the unemployed can own dogs, because I haunt rescue sites, and have never yet seen a dog which can go to someone working. Maybe I am not suitable for a dog, I should heed the professionals. But thank you all.

Klep, many rescues will home to households with adults that work outside the home. If you are serious, PM me with your area of the country, and I can suggest a few. Wiccaweys themselves will, after carefully matching you with the right dog. See their FAQS here

Going via a rescue should not be seen as a failure. I know someone who does home checks in this area of the UK for Wiccaweys - she is immensely experienced with collies - why would the owners NOT want this level of expertise looking out for their dog and assessing a potential home?

Moreover, a reputable rescue will rehome and support, years later if you ever have a problem. To give an example, I have spent most of last night and all day today sorting out emergency care for two greyhounds. Their loving, devoted exemplary owner was rushed into hospital last night - she adopted the hounds in 2007, yet she can now relax knowing that her dogs will be cared for in an expert sighthound home, with all bills paid, until either she is ready to come home, or if her health continues to be poor, they will be carefully rehomed into an assessed household. Illness and emergency can strike any of us, sadly.

We have a Border Collie who was three when DS was born, they are great pals. You have put a lot of thought into this and how you and the dog would cope. Go for it...you will all have an amazing life.

We did a private rescue it was a disaster I met the dog in her own home she seemed shy but her other two dogs were super friendly and she seemed to be in their shadow. But the dog turned out not to be as described it hated men with a passion and I have a DH and 2 teenage boys. When I contacted the elderly breeder she couldn't/wouldn't take her back. The dog caused me lots of heartache because with me she was lovely sadly she developed cancer and had to be put down but it was also a relief as she was a huge headache as well.
OP we've always had dogs but from puppies if I was to consider an adult dog again which having been metaphorically badly bitten I would not I would go through a well respected rescue where I would know if for any reason it didn't work out they would take the dog back.

Tread very very carefully 18 months- 2 years is when a lot of collies are dumped because that's when any behavioural issues start to come to light.

Very common collie problems:

Nervous aggression to other dogs. Often these dogs are particularly good with people, and seem utterly adorable, until you walk them past another dog on a lead. Then they go nuts, and can accidentally bite anyone in-between them and the other dog.

Chasing - cars, joggers, bikes, running children etc Collies herd and jump up and nip to stop whatever it is they are chasing. If it is a car they may cause an accident/be killed, if it is a person you will be in big trouble and the person may be very scared.

Fear aggression towards certain people, e.g. men, people in long scary coats, or wearing hats, or carrying sticks. They are an inherently nervous breed and if they feel you are not in charge may take it on themselves to deal with the situation.

Stressed behaviour due to lack of mental stimulation - destructive chewing, barking, chewing feet. They need to work, as well as run about.

I'd be especially wary if the dog struck you are particularly bright. The smarter he is the closer he is to a pure working dog rather than a show collie, hence he will have all the working traits - herding, nipping, need to work, and may not make a good household pet.

Speak to wiccaweys and take everything they say seriously.

Arrgh. Everything everyone is saying about why not is, I know, perfectly reasonable. I fear however that my heart will rule my head. Am taking it all in and considering. I am going to ring Wiccaweys. I am concerned this dog will get less than me, if I don't take him, and I know I'm not good enough for him!

Thank you all, will post back.

If there is any doubt in your mind that you should not take responsibility for this dog, don't do it. I love our collies. Yes, they make me feel quite inadequate sometimes, but they are basically contented and happy, even though they do not have specific jobs to do apart from to find the ball and come when they're called! It took a long time and a massive effort to get the right help for our youngest. I think we are on the right tracks. Must put on my waterproof trousers and take them all out. It's still tipping it down. Yuck yuck yuck.

If you are determined make sure you take the dog out a couple of times first and see how he copes with people, traffic and most importantly other dogs. If your DS is 8 you don't want a dog that will suddenly bolt, or bite. I'm not saying all collies do, just all the ones that live locally to me! The working sheep dogs on the local farm are the worst. Very very intelligent and wonderful with humans, but around other dogs they are a total menace.

My advice - get the dog, even if it needs some extra training, you are experienced and you aren't going to give up on it, you'll give the dog a great home and get a great dog in return.

You ask if the dog will be happy and I personally do not think a dog will be happy to be left when you are out all day. Ok you mention a dog walker and you will walk morning and night but a collies requires mental stimulation and although he has been left does not mean it is the best thing for a collie.

Hey all you lovely people who replied, thought I'd give an update - I got him. I've had him 2 weeks now, and so far he's been brilliant. He's had 3 days in that time when I've been working, but he seems to have coped well. He's walked in the morning (yomped and ball on a stick 'work') then alone for 3.5 hours, then walked (short walk for 20 mins then 10 mins frisbee catching) then alone for 4 hours (with a chewy bone thing, in the garden - I have a covered crate for him, it came with him, I covered it, I put his his bed in it, but I don't think he goes in it) then another hour's walk when I get home (with more ball on a stick throwing at the end). I have to tell you, I am completely shattered! I think he could do more though!

He is biddable and affectionate, he's a little insecure which is only to be expected, God love him, but he has been absolutely brilliant with my DS, he just wants people to give him things to do. Touch wood, he'll be ok and happy. We've taught him 'over' (jumping over a stick) and 'under' (going under legs), next stage is a weave. We have been reinforcing all he knows already sit, down, stay, roll over, here etc. but not dance because he jumps up already, I am trying to get him out of that. He didn't know how to give a paw, so I'm hoping that will fill in the jumping up gap - fingers crossed!

He is absolutely appalling on a lead, and frightened in an urban street situation; I think he went to the field, had the ball thrown, and then went home - he doesn't know how to be a dog about town. Yet.

I know the best thing for a collie would be to work on a farm. I know that, I really do, and if I could buy him one (well me one) I would. However at the age of 2 he's not going to work on a farm, and short of finding someone who doesn't work, we're his best bet in life. I will never give him away, unless he is unhappy. So far though, he is a smiley collie bobs at us.

Thank you everyone who replied, and wish us luck :)

Glad he's settling in. You say you can't buy him a farm, but have you thought of sheep dog trialling? It's getting more and more popular now and there are people around who give lessons (ours were £10 for a 2.5hr shared lesson) and it's great. He'll get to use his brain and his working instinct. It could be a whole new hobby for you.

Wow, really? They let amateurs do that? Bloody hell. I must look into that. He is so clever it's scary. Thanks!

Pop along to your local trials and you'll find all sorts there, not just farmers. They'll be able to point you in the direction of someone who gives lessons, I'm sure.

Our lessons were mainly smallholder/hobby trialler types rather than aged farmers. If you like the look of it, then ask around until you find someone's training style that you like.