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New rescue puppy - questions to ask foster lady?

10 replies

Gorran · 07/06/2012 13:31

I'm awaiting a call from the lady fostering the Choc lab puppy we'd like to rehome. Are there any specific questions I should be asking?

OP posts:
Scuttlebutter · 07/06/2012 13:44

Details on diet, any known health issues, record of health care and vax so far, any information of pup's background. Will almost certainly have come from a puppy farmer. Progress of training, whether using crate, exposure so far to DC, other animals etc etc. Favourite toys.

Gorran · 07/06/2012 13:47

Thank you scuttlebutter. I'd thought of most of those but not the training or toys. I thought the same re puppy farm, partic as the pup is under the car of Many Tears.

Why do you think the puppy farm would have got rid of the three pups, rather than selling them themselves?

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Scuttlebutter · 07/06/2012 13:55

They often dump pg bitches, then pups are born. So it's bitches who are dumped rather than pups.

Pups also though - you have to remember that puppy farming is essentially breeding on an agricultural scale, so any vet treatment that is potentially expensive or requires complex or time consuming nursing is simply not going to be used. From the "farmer's" POV, it is simply quicker and cheaper to use the ever open conduit of MT, or sadly, the spade on the back of the head.

It's not unusual for a puppy farm to have up to 90 breeding bitches and only two members of staff. Sad This is currently perfectly legal and licensed.

Gorran · 07/06/2012 15:40

Gosh Scuttlebutter that sounds awful. I do wonder myself about MT and places like that, if they're perpetuating these puppy farms work, by taking the unwanted bitches. But I do think it must be a horrible situation, if a rescue doesn't take them, then what happens? Horrible.

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Scuttlebutter · 07/06/2012 18:14

You will see many different opinions about MT. Puppy farming would stop tomorrow if the demand fell away so the question is how do we do that? For me, that involves working to make people aware of puppy farming, encourage adoption of a rescue rather than buying a pup, and also doing our best to raise the welfare standards for breeding bitches in the hellholes they are currently in.

Wales has its own Government now and Animal Welfare is a devolved responsibility so part of what I do as a volunteer is things like FOI requests to Councils, taking part in cross sectoral groups on different aspects of things like data sharing (sounds dry but is quite important) and of course the recent consultation on changing the puppy farm Regs in Wales - a huge chance to improve matters greatly, working with the anti puppy farming coalition, CARIAD and Puppy Love.

MT did not participate in the recent consultation about the new regs, has not campaigned about microchipping (current consultation in Wales for all dogs to be chipped) does not lobby politicians, does not take part in Animal Welfare Network Wales events, is not a charity (it is a business), does not publish its accounts or adoption figures (sources, numbers rehomed, etc) and does not do any form of campaigning about puppy farming/local Govt inspections, despite being the largest animal rehoming organisation in Wales (it dwarfs even DT and the largest Council, Cardiff) and probably one of the largest in the UK (it rehomes at least 2000 dogs each year). Many people will say, quite rightly, as you have, that MT have helped find new homes for breeding bitches and pups, but without any action on the root of the problem this to me actually becomes part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

If you take the analogy of say the greyhound industry, many charities involved with pointies manage to both rehome ex racers and campaign for better/higher welfare standards - I don't see it as an either/or, but as being complementary and both are essential. Actually, I don't think MT is unique in this respect - overall, I think rescues in general are not brilliant at the political choices/lobbying to make effective changes though are very good (in general!) at taking care of dogs and the short term, immediate side of things. It's very easy to look at a dog on a website and think that by adopting it, you are solving a problem, but often all it is doing is creating a vacancy for some other poor bitch to fill.

Sorry, bit of an essay there, but I think you have hit on a very interesting point about dog rescue work in general and the role of rescue organisations.

In any case, MT and Wales in general could find themselves overtaken by events. It is likely that in the next two to three years, we will be flooded by pups from Central and Eastern Europe. This process has already started and lower regulations, less inspections etc will mean that even high volume puppy farmers will not be able to compete on price. Ordinary purchasers won't see a difference (except a drop in price) since puppy farming is essentiallly a wholesale business anyway. This is going to be a welfare clusterfuck on an epic scale - I am quite depressed about it.

RedwingWinter · 07/06/2012 23:52

Interesting post, Scuttle. I do wonder sometimes if some 'rescues' are really more of a business. This whole business of puppy farms, bybs, pounds vs rescues etc makes it very difficult for the average person to work out where it's best to get a dog from. I hadn't thought about pups coming from farms across Europe - that's really depressing.

Daisybell1 · 08/06/2012 02:04

Scuttle, I take all your points about puppy farming and the problems it causes, however I'm a little concerned about your phrase 'agricultural'. We are sheep farmers and animal welfare is at the top of everything we do, if an animal needs vets treatment then that's what it gets, end of.

Farming has to comply with strict rules on this, and trading standards/rspca would be down like a ton of bricks if anything was amis, but I am aware my dp may have higher standards than some and takes his responsibility for the animals' welfare extremely seriously. He is disgusted by puppy farming and would be horrified to be compared to one.

I hope this comes across in the way it was intended Smile

Scuttlebutter · 08/06/2012 11:31

Absolutely, Daisy. One of my best friends is a farmer and her and her husband care for their animals in an exemplary fashion.

My comparison was with the scale of breeding - where a breeder or a pet owner looks much more at the individual dog, puppy farmers look at them as a "unit of production". And farmers quite understandably, while they will pay vet bills, wouldn't for instance pay the ongoing vet bills for say a chronic condition that a pet owner would - the economics simply don't allow it.

Also if two people are looking after say sixty bitches (likely to be the new ratio) with the best will in the world that is more comparable to say the staffing ratios for an agricultural animal rather than a companion animal. I am absolutely not saying that is wrong for a flock of sheep, far from it, just not appropriate for dogs. Sad

LadyTurmoil · 22/07/2012 02:42

It was very interesting to read this thread. I've been recommending MT to people who want a puppy, as I believe it's best to try and get a rescue rather than encouraging breeding, but MT does seem to have an unbelievable amount of dogs coming to them from breeders, so do they just perpetuate the problem? It's one of those things that is just about educating people, I suppose about what to look for when they go to a breeder/petshop/look online and, hopefully that will encourage people to look at responsible ways of buying a pet. It does seem to be an extremely difficult thing to stop. I think you may be right, Scuttlebutter, and the Eastern European issue could be awful. I've looked at some of the rescues that operate there and treatment of animals in Romania etc seems to be horrendous. Very depressing.

higgle · 22/07/2012 08:59

Over the last 18 months I have become inadvertantly involved in the whole Staffy debate/situation having fallen in love with one ( an elderly dog that Many Tears rescued on the 7th day, when Dogs Trust had cherry picked the easy to re-home ones)
It is the whole "top up" situation that causes me great concern. Those of us who love dogs take a rescue ( my brother felt so guilty about having a pedigree dog he got a rescue to live along side her) and then you look at the pet sites on the internet and there are whole litters of Staffys and dogs being offered at stud which are just making the situation worse. The puppy farms breed the cute breeds that everyone wants, the poor Staffys are bred by irresponsible pet owners and backyard breeders who never seem to learn.

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