A difficult Decision

[Namechangerdogowner]

I know I'm going to get some grief here, but if I can get some advice it will worth it. This is going to be long, sorry.

We have a dog who's a few weeks short of 15, she's had strokes in the recent past but is in reasonable physical health for a very elderly dog. The issues are that she's doubly incontinent and has been having lots of accidents the last couple of years, she can literally just have come in from the garden or a walk and she'll wee on the kitchen floor. She also poo's in her bed regularly in the night and then lies in it. When we're at home the back door is usually open, but it doesn't help.

Essentially she's gotten worse in the last few weeks and just goes where ever she is, for example the other day she had a poo standing eating her breakfast, it just fell out of her without her noticing.

So far we just have lots of cleaning supplies on hand and just get on with it, and my pil come around if we're out for any longer than a few hours, like today, however, I've still come home to lots of mess in her bed and all over the floor.

My pil are both nearly 70 and usually look after her when we go on holiday, but I'm dreading our next holiday in the summer because don't know how they will cope, I have to get up for 6am at the latest every morning to let her out for a wee to have any chance of avoiding having a puddle to clean up, she's usually made a mess by that stage anyway. This is after going out with DH as late as 11pm.

At 6am she takes up to 5 mins just to stand up and walk to the back door - although once she's up and about and the stiffness has worn off she's fairly mobile for an old dog.

Just to add for background, she also falls over for no particular reason, walks into things and is almost totally deaf, the falling over etc. is all since her strokes. She has also started to become occassionally agressive, so far only with me and usually when I'm putting out her food.

As an aside it's a constant battle to keep the house smelling reasonably OK (it never smells nice) the best we usually manage is the smell of disinfectant.

I'm thinking it might be time to let her go, before she gets any worse, it's not an easy decision to make but I don't think we can cope much longer, and it's unfair to ask my pil to cope with her.

I suppose what I'm wanting to ask is do you think a vet would pts in these circumstances?

I know some of you will say we should stay at home and not have days out and holidays, but we both work hard and look forward to time away with dd.

What sort of quality of life is she having? If it's not wonderful, and she's got only pain and discomfort ahead, it might be worth thinking the unthinkable.
for you.

TBH that's what I was thinking, she's probably making life more miserable for us than for herself at present, but she's getting worse with the falling over and walking into things.

I suppose it's a canine form of dementia/stroke damage she has really.

For 15 years you have loved and looked after this dog. You are a good owner! Our elderly cat developed cancer that meant awful bowel problems and frequent discussions/arguments at home about whether we should pts. Could the aggression be a sign of pain? Poor dog can't be happy lying in her own mess. For what it's worth I don't think not having days out etc would help. You would have to follow her round ready to get her out at any second or catch the accidents. I hope no one on here thinks that is realistic. Perhaps a check up and chat to the vet? Hope they don't find something awful but there is clearly something going on.

Just wanted to say that we made the decision for our lovely old boy last week.

He was almost 15 too, and was similar to how you have described your dog.

In these circumstances a vet probably would advise that she should be pts.

Its awful, but it can't be nice for her to be incontinent and lie in her own waste.

The falling over and walking into things sound like neurological problems I same as our boy.

When was the last time she was seen by a vet? My advice is to take her to the vet, explain her condition as you have her, let the vets check heart, eyes, lungs etc and be guided by them, but prepare for the worst.

I know how hard it is having done it myself only a few days ago.

You're right there's no chance of stopping the accidents, she has them when I'm standing in the kitchen with her and she's too old to quickly get outside.

I suppose I need to get a grip and take her to see the vet for a consultation, i suppose I'm feeling guilty about considering it and I'm expecting him to judge me harshly.

You have given everything to your lovely dog for 15 years, it can't be nice for her and if there's not likely o any improvement she will be miserable too, I agree with someone unthread who said have a chat to your vets and see what tey suggest. :(

She probably last saw the vet about 3/4 months ago after her last "stroke" episode.

Thanks for understanding.

DD is out for the day on Thursday so I'll make an appointment for then and see what they say.

I'm a vet. The important thing is that this is your decision and a vet can only guide you. But I don't think it's unreasonable to call it a day at this stage. She knows nothing of this so it won't affect her at all. But were you to leave it too late then she would experience suffering.

Better a day too soon than a minute too late, as they say. I'm sorry, it's a terribly hard time :(

Your vet won't judge you for this, I'm sure. No one would.

We had to say good-bye to our old boy a few weeks ago. He had been going downhill for some time and I was finding it very difficult to determine whether it was "time". Our wonderful vet said in his opinion it was time to let a dog go with dignity when they were in pain; or couldn't stand up unaided; or were incontinent. I am sure your vet won't judge you harshly. You have been a wonderful and devoted owner for 15 years - a grand old age for any dog!

If you decide it is time to say good-bye, I would highly recommend finding out whether your dog can be pts at home. Our vet came to our house and my wonderful collie fell asleep for the last time in my arms. It was very quick and peaceful; not at all distressing for him. I cried buckets of tears for my loss, but know in my heart it was absolutely the right thing to do for him.

Thanks everyone for your comments, although I still feel very guilty, I feel like I can probably face the vet now.

Op no need to feel guilty - your girl saw the vet a couple of months ago, you haven't neglected her.

Your vet won't judge you, please don't worry about that.

Its clear you love her very much, but its always difficult to determine when the right time is for the dog - as there will never be a right time for you.

Good luck, sending strength to you at this difficult time x

OP, how difficult for you. There's nothing to feel guilty about - it's clear from your posts that you have been taking really good care of her. It's possible that the aggression is a sign of her being in pain, and she can't be happy that she can't help going to the toilet inside. Your vet won't judge you at all - they will help you think about her quality of life and what is best for her. Best of luck at this difficult time.

Nothing to add that hasn't been said. Don't think anyone would judge you if you decide that it's her time. You sound lovely and caring. Good luck

My old boy was like this, the endless shit in the bed, pooing whilst doing any random activity etc.

He was old and stiff but every time I went to PTS perked up and I couldn't face it. I came home one day and found he wasn't that into his lunch, I looked more closely and saw he looked uncomfortable, he was bloating and went up quickly. The vets couldn't come out, he was stuck in the lower garden up steps he couldn't climb at best. I had a little baby with me too and no neighbours in. With a heroic effort he got up the steps with me (he was 12 stone so no easy lift) got in the car and to the vets. They pts in the car as he was going into shock. I then had to help carry him through the vets as there was only one on site which is why they couldn't do a home visit.

There is a moral to this, I should have done it earlier and them I could look back and accept that the complete failure of bowels and bladder in an old dog is a sign that there isn't much time left. Th endless cleaning isn't any fun for them, the final end is worse than whatever you have now. I feel bad that I mis called it, it wasn't fair:(

havingabath Thanks for sharing.

I think part of the problem is that once she's up and about she seems OK, but getting up in the morning and for first 30 mins or so she really struggles. If you saw her at her best you'd think she was fine.

I'm really concerned about leaving her with my pil, especially as our other dog died when we were on holiday a few years ago and they were looking after both of them, he was younger but had health problems from birth, and that's of course on top of leaving them with all the mess etc.

It may be that medication can help - sometimes dogs with continence problems are helped by anti-inflammatory drugs. She certainly sounds arthritic. You really need to talk this through with your vet. And don't worry about what they think - it's sadly a conversation they will have had many, many times before.

OP, so sorry to read this. It's such a difficult issue with an elderly dog. Just wanted to reiterate the point about discussing this with your vet. We regularly discuss an overview of our dog's health with our vet - to my mind, being able to have that discussion is a key part of the relationship of trust and respect built up with the vet - I trust their professional judgement to be able to tell me when it's time to have that discussion. We are a little way behind you - our lovely elderly girl is losing her sight, has had a stroke and has arthritis yet at the moment the quality of life is still good. At this age and stage though, it changes very rapidly.

You might find the HHHMM scale helpful - it was developed by an American vet link here - there's lots about it online if you do a quick Google search. It gives you a kind of more structured approach to consider - very helpful when such powerful emotions are in play. Please don't feel guilty - making this choice is the hardest but bravest and most loving thing we do for our dogs. Getting it right means that they can go peacefully and painfree and with dignity, surrounded by the people they love.

Sending you best wishes.