Barking mad... Help: whatever I do will upset someone! Sorry LONG!

[SheDontUseJelly]

I have a issue with my dog barking and at the moment I just can't win.

I have a three year old Westie-Poo rescue, who suffers from separation anxiety (was left 8 hours a day by previous owner, who rehomed her as they had to go back to full time work). I thought we'd managed to gradually train her out of barking at home when I (very occasionally) leave her. But according to my neighbours, she's got worse recently and barks constantly if I go out.

So I take her on the school run with me - good exercise anyway - and leave her for 5 minutes just outside school with other dogs. When I go into the playground to collect DS and DD she barks until I'm out of sight. Some days are better than others. If other people stop to stroke her she stops barking.

Anyway this afternoon a local resident living adjacent to the school came over and complained to me. He said it was bothering him and others in the street and that they were going to get a petition together and complain to the Headteacher. I said : what do you want me to do and he suggested either leaving her at home or muzzling her. He even offered to buy a muzzle! I said Id be happy to look into training but that it may take a bit of time to improve. He said he wanted a more immediate solution.

I'm not convinced he has any legal recourse (time, frequency and volume insufficient), but my neighbours definately would if I left her at home twice a day. In any case I'm not happy about the distress this would cause my dog.

So I've phoned and emailed my local environmental health dept for advice - I'm hoping the school neighbour hasn't got any recourse. Incidentally, he is always wingeing to school about noise and parking issues, is a prominent journalist who works at home. He was very patronising and I felt really quite intimidated by him. If he approaches me again I'm thinking of suggesting he has a break and makes a cup of tea at 8.55 and 3.30.

So: bearing in mind we have no spare funds for expensive behaviourists at the moment, HOW do I stop her from barking?

Have tried: kongs, chews, radio at home, not making a fuss and gradually building up the length of time she's left. I've never left her longer than three hours yet. She ALWAYS pees with excitement/relief when I walk through the door....

Should add: two separate training issues - barking at school and at home, requiring slightly different approaches? Is one any easier than the other?

Hopefully bumping...

I'm not an expert but with the barking dogs I've taken the gradual leaving has worked.

I don't know what the barking at school is about - is it seperation or is it defence/attack/play/over stimulation behaviour?

I think I would probably really focus on some in house training, and not take the dog to school. Speak to your neighbours, explain what you are doing and that if it doean't solve the issue you will start taking her out with you again.

Where is she left at home? Does she have a safe den - a crate is good for this. Put her bed in there and leave the door open, you can drape a sheet over it so she feels enclosed and safe. Leave her a dirty t shirt you have been wearing in her bed so she has security.

I can only really advise you on the gradual leaving method as that is all I have used. Take it very slowly. Introduce the crate for a few days first - don't lock her in just let her get used to going in and out. That has to be a safe space so no children can touch her in there or block her doorway.

Then start the leaving training. Put her in the cage with a toy/chew and close the kitchen door. If she starts barking straight away talk to her. When she stops come in and give a treat. Then again, then again. Then go and don't talk. Come in when she pauses barking. There will be a pause but a short one so be quick! Then again and again. She should catch on that silence equals you and a treat. Once she starts to be quiet then start increasing the amount of time, over and over. Build up to leaving her while you go and sit outside on the street. Take a baby monitor if you have one and see what she gets up to.

If that doesn't work you might have to see a behaviour specialist - westies are buggers for barking at the best of times - close the curtains of the room she is in so she is not barking at anything outside. A dog that has had years of being allowed to bark is going to be hard to stop.

Thanks for the advice - most of which is exactly what we did in the first place. We worked up from 5 minutes to two and a bit hours. Was going ok but, for reasons unknown, has recently stopped and regressed. The only thing I can think of which had changed is new neighbours one side - lots of packing and furniture moving noises. She may well get used to the new noises and settle down again.

She lives in the kitchen and living room. I can keep her in the kitchen only, which may help as she won't hear or see passers by as easily. I'm afraid I really don't believe in the crate thing. She is 3 years old and has never been crated before. She has a secure child-free den under the stairs in the kitchen. I don't like the idea of locking her in a cage. She isn't destructive in any way at all, just barky.

When I leave her at school, I introduce her to the other dogs left in the same area. She's fine with most of them, has a sniff and a play and settles down. She hates me leaving her and even sometimes does it if the rest of my family are still with her and I go off to the loo while we are out. She had a very strong bond with her previous owner who then suddenly (through no fault of her own) had to leave her in the house for 8 hours a day to go to work. I suspect she is worried that I may do the same.

My immediate concern is who has the greatest legal recourse while I'm trying to sort this all out. I strongly suspect that Mr Journalist doesn't have a leg to stand on. His house is 200 metres from school gates and he has 5 minutes or less barking to put up with a day. He's regularly complaining to school about noise and parking issues. However, I've checked the council website and it would appear that my immediate neighbours could complain and take serious action.

I didn't mean for the crate to be locked just to provide a den, but if she already has one then there is no need.

Don't worry about the journalist, you and your dog are passing through not permanent and he can't do anything to you direct, although he might be able to bang on to the school enough to get them to try and stop people bringing dogs. Again if it is outside of the school grounds theres nothing they can do really.

Do you get on with your neighbours? I would go and talk to them and keep them informed with what is going on. If you explain how hard you are working on the barking they will be more tolerant, although I suppose everyone has their cut off point. Would any of them be up for a spot of dog sitting?

I do think the new neighbours noise may have set her back too. Start the training again and see if you can get her re settled, you can put the radio on again too, but a dogs hearing is very good and she will still hear the goings on next door over it.

Neighbours one side are pleasant enough on the surface, but have been complaining to me. I don't have much in common with them. Young newly weds who appear to be at home in the daytime a lot. I suspect we generally make a lot of noise - kids yelling etc. I think they are living on a slightly different planet to our busy household...

The other side is a single woman who moved in last week. She's off work at the moment unpacking. Once she's back at work she will be out all day every day.

I'm hoping to establish more facts tomorrow. I thought it would be a good move to be up front with Environmental Health and the Headteacher. The parents who were there we're outraged on my behalf and thought Mr Journalist was bang out of order.

Will update. DH has just told me off and said I need to go to bed :-)
I'm a night time worrier! Knackered but can't stop thinking!

Thanks and night night.

I'm not sure of the legalities, hopefully evironmental health will get back to you today.

A behaviourist would be the best way to go, someone from www.apbc.org.uk who will use positive methods. However, I appreciat ethey are costy. Do you have dog insurance? Many policies will cover the cost of a behaviourist.

Obviously if your dog is barking like this it is distressed, or, in the case of being tied up by the school gates, it could be that it has learnt that barking gets it attention.

A muzzle is not a solution because the only sort of muzzle that would stop barking is a nylon one, which will also stop the dog from panting, which in the heat we've been having would be very dangerous and cruel, even for a short period. Perhaps another short term solution would be for you to wait with the dog and have another parent bring your child to you outside the gate?

I appreciate that you don't like the idea of a crate, a lot of people don't. They look like a cage and you shut dogs in them. However, used correctly the dog isn't shut in until it's perfectly happy in there and begins to see it as somewhere nice things happen, because you can shut it in and so if it has a bone, kong etc, it can't take it off anywhere else. It also has the added benefit that it keeps the dog safe from harming itself by chewing things that may be dangerous if it gets distressed at being left and protecting your stuff and that you can 'enforce' short periods of seperation at home whilst the dog stays in it's safe haven. I use crates for all of mine as puppies and then, due to space, ditch them when we are past the toilet training/chewing stage. I do keep one for my rescue dog though, it's like a security blanket for him, although I no longer shut him in it. Often my other adult dogs try and cram in there with him as they all like crates so much and it's been known to have 2 adult Golden retrievers and a staff/lab cross in a 3ft crate all at once! This is two of them in it, you can see there's no room, but they could get out if they wanted:

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Have you tried a DAP diffuser or collar? These can help dogs that get distressed as they help to calm them (google will explain more). It's not a solution in itself, but it should help. you can usually get DAP products from your vet, but Pets at Home do it I think.

Sadly, as I am sure you know, there is no quick fix solution to this. Plus, the quickest way to deal with it is going to be not to have to leave the dog at all at first and that is not practical for a lot of people.

I hope you can sort something out.

Have just had an interesting phone call from the Headteacher. Turns out Mr Journalist is constantly phoning the school and council complaining. He tried to take the school to court for excess litter in the car park. The Headteacher was very supportive and said he doesn't have an issue with my dog at all. He's even logged it in the system as a parent feeling harassed by a man on school property.

Apparently he's obsessed with the environment and would have been standing with binoculars and listening. Bit of an intimidating man. Headteacher said that if you stand up to him (which the school did) he goes away. I think he shouldn't live right next to a school or buy some ear defenders!

I still accept that I need to stop my dog barking if course, but I'm now feeling less 'urgent' about it and more able to tell this bloke (politely) to bugger off !

Hi not sure if this will be of any use what so ever just a idea. I got my springer x lurcher at 8 weeks and because we are always there generally she started barking when left-she is never left for more than 4 hours unless I have my dog walker coming in. I tired the radio by what works best is the tv-my vet suggested it and she barks much less now. Maybe worth a shot?

Midiori - thank you. Yes we are fully DAPped up! Not convinced it make a massive difference though and is stupidly expensive. I use Kalm Aid tablets too, just before I go out (very rare - two hours once a week tops). She has her under stairs 'cubby hole' as a safe den and WAS just sleeping in there when I went out, before the new neighbour miving noise started.

Moving not miving!

If she has recently started the behaviour again I would go back to the very basics and start again at step one and build it all up again.

Many dogs can start unwanted behaviour that you thought you have trained out of them. Just go back to the begining.

The key to the leaving them is the reward. At the moment her barking at home and school is achieving something because eventually you come back to her, which is a brilliant reward for her so you need to make sure the reward for her being quite is better than that iyswim?

So, does anyone have any advice about dealing with Mr Journalist in the meantime? He's on red alert now and will definately pop up again at 3.30 today! I got kids taken in by a friend this morning so we didn't have to deal with him.

Well, I've missed todays school run so I hope it went ok. If he is rude and aggressive, just be calm and polite and say I am not breaking any laws here but you are. You are being aggressive and intimidating and if you approach me again I shall call the police. Then turn away from him.

This may be a stupid idea but how about getting another small dog to keep her company? You could maybe borrow a friends for a few days to see if it works or not?

I like the idea of getting another dog, but I dont think DH will agree!

Headteacher let me bring my dog into school to collect the kids, as long as I held her (she is smallish). School are being very supportive, but it's not a long term solution. Ironically, as we left there were two other dogs barking at each other! Mine grumbled a bit, but didn't join in. Ha!

Mr Journist did not appear, but I doubt that's the end of it.

Journalist that is...

Just sod him:) if heaD is happy then you have no problem, and an unusual head!