Is using a choke really frowned upon these days?

[mischiefmummy]

I've had dogs all my life, but my current one is about nine so maybe I'm not up with the 'current' thoughts on dog training.
We've always used a choke, the soft fabric ones, but I've been told that even these are considered cruel now.
I'm asking as today I saw a friend really struggling with her large boisterous year old, and yet she looked horrified when I suggested a choke.
Another friend has a puppy of a similar age and size, has used a choke from day one and now has an impeccably behaved hound who will walk to heel with or without a lead.
Come on everyone in the know, what's the latest thinking on getting your hound to walk to heel? Am I old and outdated?

I use a choke chain, or a rope lead that tightens when he pulls.

I am evil.

I have a Springer who pulls like an effing train and without a choke of some sort I would not be able to hold him when a duck took his fancy.

NB - He spends most time running free.

We used a choker -we have now swapped to a harness which is fab. I know some find the choker cruel - I wasn't a massive fan, however being 6 months pregnant,if it came down to the dog wearing a choker or me being pulled to death then I know which one I would go for.

However, I found the halter a lot better, and my dog is a lot happier in it x

I think they are frowned upon because they can crush a dogs windpipe if they pull a lot.

I could be wrong though.

They are cruel, painful and unnecessary. Totally frowned upon it just shows a lazy owner who is only prepared to control their dog by pain rather than good training.

Choke chain collars can snap a dog's neck. If it's cos of excessive pulling a halti/had collar or a harness is a safer option. Several of the sturdier strong dogs on the school run are walked on a harness.

I prefer a leather martingale , (given that I was the fool that chose to own a traffc shy whippet in the middle of the big city). www.celtichound.co.uk/leather-martingale-collars.php

Fabric martingales are available too. www.etsy.com/search?includes%5B%5D=materials&q=fabric+martingale+collar

My greyhound has a fabric martingale.

Meant to say our whippet is very good at walking to heel, but it's just not worth taking the risk of something frightening her on a busy London main road. A slipped buckle collar, and a bolting whippet would be a disaster, (major traffic incident + dead dog?).

These things only have to happen once, but you live with the consequences forever.

I'm currently saving for a sheepskin lined dog rose design from celtic hounds for winter use. Can't afford it, but I want it so ner

For sturdy dogs a decent harness makes all the difference I've found when dog sitting for friends - I'm just not into that arm outta socket malarky at all. I like the head collars too, but it does seem to be a bit tricky to get hold of well fitting ones for some breeds?

Harnesses are crap for walking dogs that pull - I put harnesses on the huskies when I want them to be able to pull to their full capacity. Not a fan of headcollars either, I've seen too many used incorrectly (up in the dog's eye, eye streaming, dog still pulling but not as strongly so owner not bothered about further training, used with heavy chain leads or flexis etc.)

It's less about the tools used as the training method and commitment to training IMO. Standard positive reward stuff will teach loose lead walking and a proper heel with no need for gadgets beyond a plain flat collar and lead.

I have nothing against chokes (all kinds, rope slips, half check, martingale, full chain) when used appropriately but like so many things they are often misused. For what it's worth I often use rope slip leads purely out of convenience and possess choke chains for our very rare forays into the show ring. They wear harnesses when working.

I was just astonished at how upset she was by the idea of a choke. I think she is more at risk of a dislocated shoulder than he is of having his neck snapped. Especially as he is still of an age when if he sees something he just takes off. She is trying to manage a big heavy dog, double buggy and and several children. It's a huge accident waiting to happen!

I agree your friend needs to train her dog to walk better on the lead, but don't think a choke is the only or necessarily the best way to do this. Plenty of us manage to train our dogs (including large powerful breeds) to walk to heel and not pull, without using choke leads.

I trained my younger Rottie by (a) the good old 'every time you pull we stop, pulling will get you exactly nowhere' method and (b) using clicker/treats to teach him the 'heel' command.

I do feel upset at the thought of using a choke actually, even though I doubt I could snap either of my dogs necks! I remember my mum using one on the pup we were fostering and I thought it was horrible (and seem to remember it didn't work anyway as he hadn't stopped pulling by the time he left us!).

As far as I remember, a choke when used correctly is not supposed to be used so that the threat of it becoming tight makes the dog stop pulling. It is supposed to be that the "tinkle" sound of the chain is used to remind the dog that it should be walking to heel iyswim.

All I see is him straining at the collar and her yanking him back using her very kind 'baby' voice! I know there are lots of ways but she seems to using none of them. His recall is poor, and he is a menace to other dogs and walkers due to his bouncy behaviour. I have come home covered in paw prints where he repeatedly jumped up.
I know a choke is not the only method, I used the 'stop if you pull' method and that was effective in conjunction with a fabric choke. I tried a head-collar thing but he hated it and pulled it off, but I left it quite late as I hadn't come across them.
I think anything is more effective than just letting the animal pull constantly. I've been told he's fine when there are no other dogs or children around, but surely that's when you need him to be on his best behaviour??

Big dog has a half check it only comes into force when birds are in the vicinity and to be fair I never have to worry about it tightening too much over time or slipping off. They only wear collars out walking never in the house. pup just has a normal collar I'm not sure what shell have when she needs a replacement prob the same but she walks to heel anyway.. I don't like harnesses for handlers, im not a huge fan of headcollars unless they properly fit. As with everything it comes down to correct and consistent handling.

MargratGarlik the tinkle nose will only work if the dog associates it with pain so the dog will have been choked to associate the tinkle nose with stopping pulling. Which also means if the dog is not wearing the collar it will still pull. The new behaviour has not been learnt eg to walk correctly.

There will be a head harnass that will fit dogs there are a lot on the market that do not rise up in the dogs eyes depending on the face shape of the dog
Black dog, inov8 halti gentle leader to name but a few.

It is very easy to teach a dog to walk to heel but it can take time.

Start with a clicker(of course!) Do not have the dog on a lead but walk with a handful of yummy treats when it comes near to you by your side click and treat. It will take most dogs about 3 mins to work out what they have to do to get the treat. It is all fun, no shouting, turning around yanking etc just great jolly fun - if I am next to you I get a treat.

If you do this for a few seconds several times a day by the end of the week you will have a dog that knows where the heel position is. You can now give a command and gradually add in distractions eg food on the floor, children running around, another dog, a cat etc. This is a foolproof method and will work on all dogs given a bit of time and patience.

SnoopyKnine, thank you for that explanation, very clear. I trained my dog around the kitchen table whilst cooking tea, as I could be sure I would do it little and often and the kitchen provided a safe contained environment.
My friend thinks she has no time to train him and therefore simply accepts the situation, but she seems frazzled and I'd love to find a way to help her.
I'm happy using my slip lead as I'm not being dragged and I simply use it to correct occasionally. The slip leads tend to be shorter and as I'm only 5' I don't want to be reeling in lots of extra lead.
I've seen the slip leads used very successfully and then it progresses to no lead at all but that is mainly with gun dogs, so perhaps it's different tools for different activities too?

Never used a choke chain with my dog because he just walks backwards to slip it. Regular collars don't work because he has a tiny head and a huge neck - again slips it.

I borrowed a friends choke chain once and stupid dog nearly passed out, too daft to figure stop pulling = stop choking.

Full chest harness ineffective - just gave him more umph to pull with.

Nose harness, excellent. Worked very well but make sure it is on properly or it will hurt them. Mine was used mainly to override that second of "sod it Im going for it anyway" until I had verbally managed to break his trance to get him to sit and therefore regaining control. Rarely the lead is pulled tight now as he knows he can not go anywhere.

Extendable leads - useless mine ran full pelt and snapped an extendable lead fit for a dog much bigger than him, nearly pulled my shoulder out in the process.

Or just wait til they are too lazy to pull :)

A headcollar (ones where the lead attaches to the back of the head as opposed to under the jaw are a bit better) would be the best option for your friend either to aid training her dog or to use if she really won't train it. It's likely the dog would just pull even in a choke anyway, even if it was actually 'choking' itself.

I don't see why anyone would need to use a choke of any sort if a dog was trained to walk to heel/on a loose lead though?

I use a Halti for my dog who is a terrible puller, I am not sure exactly how it works as it seems to cause him no distress whatsoever and he walks lovely with it on.

I have tried all sorts to train him in the 6 months we have had him but he is a 6 year old rescue and if this is the only problem we can find then I can live with it and my shoulder is pain free

Midori - I use a long-link choke for showing as I have a coated breed and fine chains or rolled leather collars tend to snag or snarl up in their neck fur.

I often use a rope slip lead at agility training to just drop over their head in between exercises and for transferring them from car to house, saves faffing trying to find the collar ring to clip the lead on every time. Obviously in both of these scenarios they are in work mode and walking on a loose lead or properly to heel.

Probably I've bunged a rope slip on to walk them to the vet or to the shops if I'm running late, there's always one hanging up by the door and it's just easy, again they seldom pull in that situation so no harm done.

99% of the time though they're in their harnesses and pulling like stink. :)

Completely unnecessary - training is essential, and if the dog still pulls, then a halti collar or harness.