Potential problems with having 2 littermates.

[CalamityKate]

My friend's sister sent her a picture yesterday of two 5 week old Cocker pups, accompanied by a text saying "Look at our new additions who are coming in 3 weeks time!".

The sister has 4 children under 9, the youngest being 4.

She is very houseproud.

They got a GSD pup when she was pregnant with DC1 and ended up rehoming it because "It was getting stuff out of the washing machine and I'm worried it will hurt the baby" etc etc.

Can someone please list ALL the reasons why even the most experienced trainers/owners/handlers would usually balk at having 2 littermates together, so I can pass them on to my friend in the hope that her sister might take notice of at least SOME of them? I've pointed out some, but there are probably plenty I missed.

Thanks.

Tell her that if she didn't manage to train one single pup she will never, ever manage it with two. FGS.

Training one pup is difficult enough (and she's failed at that already), training two requires exactly twice as much time and effort - it's impossible to train two at the same time at that age, they will be reliant on and distracted by each other. Will she have time to take each pup out individually? Attend two lots of puppy classes?

The breeder also deserves a battering, no reputable one would let two go together.

That's pretty much exactly what I told my friend, except I told her that two would be MORE than twice the work.

This lady apparently has lovely visions of family days out/walks with the children and the dogs. Apparently the kids are prone to running off (naturally, given their age) so MY visons of their family days out involve trying to run after 3 small children and two unruly puppies...

I also told her that about the breeder.

I was told that if you get two littermates together, it is much harder to socialise or train them, because they have got eachother and don't need to bond to the family in the same way. Plus they are both going through the housetraining, chewing etc stages together.

A friend's neighbour had two labs from the same litter and had exactly this problem - they formed their own self-contained unit, detached from the family, and seemed to lead eachother astray/egg eachother on in terms of destruction. Amongst other things, they tore/chewed a hole right through an inside wall, and were seen swinging off the front room curtains, bringing down the curtain poles. They've caused no end of damage.

We have a one yr old dog and so does my mil. They are same breed but not related.

They spend a lot of time together. I have found that, a bit like kids, they are brilliantly behaved on their own but 2 of them together get up to huge mischief!

My trainer recently told us she had a couple who had brought home 2 cocker pups- she said she'd bet a years wages on them both being rehomed. Trainer and husband had done it once, in more than 20 years of owing dogs- each took on the role of trainer to a pup each, she says it was still very very difficult. And these are people who work and train their dogs every single day, as their jobs! It's not just the work of 2 pups, it's much more.

They both need socialising, training and walking- SEPARATELY! Or they will bond more between themselves than you with you.

Most people buy into the idea of 2 pups do they will play with each other/keep each other company. What if one has SA? It will most likey pass that onto the other.

Like having 2 toddlers, they can get into loads more trouble together!

2 times the wee/poo/sand/mud/hair/food trails/water drops/mouthing/humping/dog smells in the house! .

Cockers seem to be a popular pet at the mo, and whilst they look lovely and the ones I've met are very friendly bonkers, I do think people under estimate how much walking and other stimulation they need. ILs have 3, the youngest 2 are still working with FIL, the oldest is 14 and still could run about all day if he was needed!

Will try and think of more! HTH

Thanks all. Keep them coming.

2 puppies are more than double the work of one. They need to be trained separately (and kept separately much if the time if bonding with people is to be encouraged over bonding with each other) and then trained together as they will not translate anything they learn on 1-1 training into situations where they are with their sibling. house training will take forever and be a complete nightmare.

2 of the same age can also cause huge problems when they hit maturity and try to establish their position as top dog. This is particularly likely if they are the same sex. Perhaps less of an issue if they are male/female. However, if it does happen, the fights can be serious and the grudge life-long meaning one will have to be rehomed if they can't safely be kept separate.

Any breeder prepared to sell 2 pups together to novice dog owners is a backyard breeder or puppy farmer. Aside from the behavioural concerns about 2 pups together, I'd be hugely concerned about whether health tests have been done, especially for PRA (progressive retinal atrophy) a a hereditary eye condition common in the breed. If not, there is a chance that either or both of these pups could be blind in a few years and there is no way of knowing now looking at the pups...the status of the parents needs to be known.

I know several good breeders who have kept siblings because no suitable home has been found for a pup so they have had to keep it (along with the pup they intended to keep for themselves). All would say that they would never keep two pups by choice as it is simply too much work for the average family and, as a result, you're unlikely to get the best from either dog. They would never sell 2 pups together knowing that most families struggle with the time and attention one requires and to adequately meet the needs of 2 is nigh on impossible.

They're both male.

My pup has her sister round most weekends at the moment and it's chaos!! They trash everything, they dont listen, they just run and fight and they need separating regularly just to calm down. They are now 17 weeks old (retrievers) I would never dream if having two litter mates full time ever! I know my dog trainer likes to have a three to four year age gap between her dogs I've followed her advise and while my two are sisters my big dog is 4 years older. If she rehomed one tell her it won't last and not to waste her money. I don't think a good breeder would let two go together? I know we were matched to our puppy x

I think cockers are particularly scatty when young as well which won't help.

We got our current dog at 6 months old from a friend who had got two brothers as pups. She was an experienced dog owner and she couldn't cope. We were also saying the other day that though our dog is lovely he is lacking a certain something that I think was because he didn't get much socialisation until we got him at 6 months.

Friend who shows her dogs kept two puppies because she liked them both but couldn't decide which was going to mature best. By the time they were six months old, they'd destroyed an outdoor kennel, and most of her garden, and were driving the others up the wall with their antics. If St Trinian's bred puppies, that's what they'd be like. Now they're separated - the most placid pair you could wish to meet.

Housetraining one puppy nearly sent me insane. Two at the same time - and four kids under nine as well - would be like some kind of malevolent Greek punishment. The Ever-Refilling Puddle of Piddle.

The Ever-Refilling Puddle of Piddle

I've got two girls from the same litter (long story!)

It was absolutely twice the work training them etc and we were prepared for that. Other than that though it's been fantastic, they are lovely dogs and very much loved members of our family

They are quite bonded to each other, but more so to us, and they are great with all the members of our household, though they each have a slight favourite....one favours me a bit more, the other my husband . We have always made an effort to walk them/train them separately though so I think like a lot of things the outcome is dependant on how much effort you put in

Oh and we have six kids too so yes hectic just about covers it

She can come and spend the day here. I have two dogs approximately the same age and one slightly older dog. Let me tell you, three young dogs does not equal three times the mess and noise. Oh no, it's more like ten times, at least.

Training is a pain the arse. To train on walks you have to walk each dog seperately. Once that's done you have to reinforce that training when they are together with yet more training because all rules go out of the window once they're together.

If one dog has issues it's taken on by the 'pack' (inverted commas because I don't believe in pack theory) and they all have the same issue. eg. one of mine is fear aggressive, the other two perfectly pleasent, socialised dogs will pick up on his fear and aggression when they're out together and will back him up, thus reinforcing to the fearful one that there is something to be afraid of. Of course it sometimes works the opposite way and he can learn to greet other dogs properly by copying the two calmer ones, but with litter mates that wouldn't happen because they're learning the same things at the same time, they'll have the same issues.

It's harder to bond with them and get them to bond with you because they have each other, they don't need you. This is turn makes training even harder because they are not so keen to please you. They'd rather please each other.

Working as a team they can get up to far more trouble than one single dog, yes, Devil Dog I am looking you, opening the bathroom door for the grey to get the bin you cannot reach

And another thing! Two young dogs off the lead is a complete nightmare! I no longer take out mine with my mil's because they are like 2 wild nutters together. Recall goes out the window, as does walking to heel. Let them off and they just gallop towards the horizon without a backward glance.

I have two sets of friends (both experienced dog owners) who have litter mates - 2 boys collies, and 2 girl collies. In both cases as they have got older one has become increasingly aggressive, dominating the other dog. They are having a lot of problems and I don't envy them.

I have another friend who is determined to get 2 pups at the same time, as she has twin boys, and twin cats, so 'does everything in twos'. She has no experience of puppies, and works long hours, and I have gone from being concerned to down right mad about it

Not a lot you can do about it OP, but good on you for trying

No, there's not a lot I can do.

It makes me mad.

It makes my friend moderately mad and it's her sister!

Oh God, I know someone who's about to take on 3 puppies! Same litter. I've had my say on it, but it's fallen on deaf ears. They've had dogs before and reckon it'll be fine.
Watch this space...

I think having an older dog really helps with a new puppy. Our old dog really used to put the pup in it's place when she thought it was doing something unacceptable. Having a well trained older dog around really does help instilling good manners in a pup.