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Advice on getting puppy to sleep at night!

24 replies

shinky · 13/03/2012 19:00

Hi guys, desperate for some advice here! Brought my gorgeous puppy 10 days ago and he has settled in great apart from night time habits. From midnight onwards he is awake all night whimpering and crying and I am at my wits end as to what to do, as the whole family is being kept awake.
I am a first time dog owner, so really have no experience with this. Friends have all said to keep ignoring him and he will settle eventually but he seems to be getting himself so traumatized that its upsetting to hear him. I have 2 young children of school age and they are getting so tired from lack of sleep that their teachers have gently commented about the situation.
Anybody with any advice?! thanks!

OP posts:
jaffacakehips · 13/03/2012 19:11

Hot water bottle under the bed / mat and a ticking clock.

Hot water bottle to replicate Mothers body heat and the clock is her heartbeat.

jaffacakehips · 13/03/2012 19:12

You could also put the radio on low, poor chap will be lonely. Some background noise should help.

noinspiration · 13/03/2012 19:14

Might he need a wee? When mine were pups last wees were midnight, and I got them up again before 6am. They couldn't last longer than that.

shinky · 13/03/2012 19:24

Hi,we have been doing the radio,its not made any difference, and he is paper trained at the moment so still wees on this? He was only 7 weeks when we had him as the breeder wanted rid so I guess his age is probably part of the problem. I feel that because he is so young that maybe I should sleep downstairs with him for a week or two but the vet thinks this will only worsen the problem? He just seems so vulnerable and just want to do whats best for him:(

OP posts:
jaffacakehips · 13/03/2012 19:35

7 weeks...Shock

GrittersWifeAndProud · 13/03/2012 19:38

Is having him upstairs with you an option?

shinky · 13/03/2012 19:49

I know 7 weeks is very young.We wanted the breeder to keep him another 2 weeks,but wouldnt. The fact that he is so young is why I am not convinced that leaving him to cry is the best thing for him at the moment.
Upstairs would be an option yes, but am worried about confusing the poor fella as ultimately I would prefer him to sleep downstairs in the long run?

OP posts:
DorcasBouvier · 13/03/2012 21:09

I got my puppy 10 days ago too (she was 7 1/2 weeks) and am just starting to get her settled at night. After trying desperately to follow the advice in the training books and just ignore her, I've found that if I take her outside and give her a bit of a fuss, she goes straight back to sleep. Hopefully she'll start sleeping for longer periods when she doesn't need to wee so often. That's the plan anyway :)

shinecrazydiamond · 13/03/2012 21:16

Does he have a crate? They are necessary

Also the only way forward is to ignore him completely. Although as he is so young this may not be advisable yet

Mama1980 · 13/03/2012 22:13

Hi I'm
Not saying I did the right thing, I got my gorgeous pup as a completely inexperienced owner. She was 8 weeks when i got her from a accidental litter heading to rescue and the only way she would sleep was with me upstairs and she slept through fine, at about 16 weeks I put her in her bed on the floor and she transitioned easily. I'm not saying I did the right thing but it was right for us. At so young a age maybe allowing upstairs temporarily might be worth a try? I hope it all works out the advice on here is amazing

clam · 13/03/2012 22:42

My now 11mo puppy was not good at nights for the first couple of weeks. He also used to get upset if we left him in the kitchen behind the stairgate - even if he could see us the other side.
What we stumbled upon by accident was that he was completely calmed by a piece of our clothing. I'd left a pile of dirty laundry by the washing machine and he curled up on it, buried his nose in deep and went to sleep. So we gave him a fleecy dressing gown at night and it did the trick. He still has one now!

daisydotandgertie · 13/03/2012 23:12

He's a baby. Go easy on him. You already know he's too young to be away from his siblings, so it's not surprising he's struggling.

Take him and his crate upstairs with you; keep him in your bedroom to start with and as he gets a little older, start moving him bit by bit to where you want him to end up.

Put some of your most smelly clothing in with him, and I'd give him a big old soft toy to curl up with. Don't forget he's only ever slept in a heap of puppies so far - all alone is a big change. An old fleece would be brilliant.

Oh - and he's also too young to be able to regulate his temperature properly. He's likely to be cold at night, especially so if he's a small breed.

GrimmaTheNome · 13/03/2012 23:25

Gradual withdrawal, either like daisy said or the other way round if you're up for it - you sleep near him and gradually move further away (do you have a sleeping bag and airbed?) You really do need a crate for this otherwise of course he'll just crawl over and snuggle up.

Its very much like with a baby - it is hard at first but he will settle eventally. Good luck!

shinky · 14/03/2012 10:46

Thanks alot for all the great advice. Slept downstairs with the little fella and gave him a hot water bottle and he slept through till 4! Fingers crossed now!

OP posts:
MiseryBusiness · 14/03/2012 11:17

We did exactly what daisy has suggested with both ours when they were puppies and it worked wonders.

Hope you all get some sleep soon!

MrsMonkey · 14/03/2012 11:39

Another question on the same theme. Our pup is a baby too - she seems to be settling at night better now but I'm confused by all the different advice about crate training over night. We currently have her in a large crate which will last her till she's fully grown. On one side is paper and in the day her food bowl. On the other side is her bed in a cardboard box. We are encouraging her to sleep there in the day too - the door opens into her puppy pen so if I can't watch her I leave her confined to the puppy pen with lots of toys and with the crate door open. School run etc. At night she's in her crate with the door closed.

A couple of mornings she's done a wee or a poo in the paper side - which is fine as I decided early on not to get up in the night for her (bed at midnight - up at 6ish). Should I get rid of the paper in her crate and make the whole thing her bed and see if she will go through the night? Or shall I leave as is, clean up the mess and wait until she is older. She's still only 8 weeks so a baby.

She is gorgeous and we are loving having her!

daisydotandgertie · 14/03/2012 12:12

Either thing will work tbh.

The crate training theory is based on the principle that a dog won't foul it's bed; so the crate should be set up with the bed filling it completely - either by using a smaller crate or setting up a divider. It isn't perfect, and sometimes they have to wee or poo in the bed because their bladders are so tiny, their muscles are weak, and like children, don't produce the wee reduction hormone at night until they're a bit older.

At 8 weeks I wouldn't entertain a glimmer of hope that she'll be able to go through the night without a loo trip of some sort.

So, to do it theoretically perfectly, you should set an alarm at night to come down for a silent toilet swoop before the dog starts to cry to be let out or just pees regardless. That way, the dog shouldn't learn that loads of noise at night time results in attention from you and means she will never be forced to foul her bed.

That, coupled with trips outside during the day every time she wakes up, after every meal, after every game and pretty much every hour in between should get house training sorted out very fast indeed. In the matter of a week or two.

The other approach is to do what you're doing and in time, she will eventually be able to hold her bladder overnight - probably by the time she's 6 ish months old to be reliable.

The only confusion that your current method will produce is that she's learning that one half of her crate is a toileting area which will take a while to unlearn. She may start using that in the day in preference to going outside and you'll eventually have to teach her not to.

It depends which fits your lifestlye best tbh.

I have done both, depending on the dog. I have also trained with no crate which actually resulted in a cleaner dog faster - but of course that's absolutely dog dependant; our no crate girl absolutely HATED the crate so after just one disaster I folded it away.

MrsMonkey · 14/03/2012 13:21

Thanks Daisydot - I think I'll keep trying with half paper as we are and see how we go. I have little enough sleep as it is so it was a conscious decision not to get up for her. She's been great with wee's through the day (touchwood) and doesn't seem to be having wee accidents at night - but she seems to be confused where the right place is to poo. She was fine initially but I think the crate probably is confusing her a bit so we will just be patient and see how we go. I knew that I'd be cleaning up some morning messes as a trade off to not getting up!

suburbandream · 14/03/2012 17:39

I'm not an expert but just wanted to say - it will get better! Our pup is 13 weeks old now and is very happy in his crate at night. He sleeps from 10-6 with no accidents but the first two weeks (we got him at 9 weeks) he was waking about 1am for a wee and then was very hard to settle. Sometimes he cried for a couple of hours Sad so I would get up again etc. In those first weeks he did sometimes wee on the paper in his crate - he has a big one with bed at one end and paper the other. On the first night he was so upset he did a poo on the beautiful new cosy cushion I had bought! But just wanted to say don't lose heart, eventually they get the hang of it. He sleeps in the kitchen and I make it nice and dark, blinds drawn but he has a night light just in case I have to go in.

shoutymcshoutsmum · 14/03/2012 18:01

Some posters seemed to be shocked/surprised that the puppy has gone to the OP's house at 7 weeks. Is this really something to frown upon?

Gwen Bailey in "the Perfect Puppy", which more experienced MNET posters recommended to me, says the following,

"If the puppy is being well socialized with adults and children and getting plenty of new experiences every day, it may be best to leave him with the breeder until he is eight weeks old. If he is not, then SIX weeks may be a better age for him to go to his new home, where time is better spent learning to be part of a human family. Do not take a puppy that is older than eight weeks, unless you know for certain that he has already been well socialized with humans and has had many varied experiences and plenty of individual attention."

I would have thought it might be easier for a family to provide those varied experiences and plenty of individual attention for a puppy than a breeder with lots of puppies? Happy for people to disagree though....

MrsMonkey · 15/03/2012 12:59

We got our pup at about 7.5 weeks. I found a fantastic breeder who spent as much time asking me questions as I did her. I was on a waiting list for our pup for almost a year and every pup was spoken for before it was even conceived. The wait has been worth it. We also had to sign an agreement that we would return our dog at any time during its life if we could no longer keep her. So I do think of her as a responsible breeder. She said to me at 7 weeks that the pups were ready to go - they were showing a clear preference with spending time with people rather than their mum. And when I went to collect her my gut feeling was that she was right and although 7 weeks seems young, as with anything it depends on the breed/size/nature of the dogs in question. This litter seemed very mature and ready to leave their mum, but I'm sure that is not always the case.

From my point of view, although they were being beautifully socialized in her home anyway, now that my pup is on her own and has my undivided attention rather than competing with her six siblings, I'm sure I can address her needs in that direction better than if she had spent another week or so with her litter mates.

Anyway she is fab and she slept through beautifully last night so I am happily singing her praises!

midori1999 · 15/03/2012 16:19

Some good advice given here, so I won't add to that.

I have let puppies go at 7 weeks before, although it's more like 7 1/2. 6 weeks would be too young for me personally. They do enter a 'fear stage' at around 8 weeks, so just before then seems the sensible time. It also means puppies can go over several days, much easier for Mum, IMO, without the puppy missing out on valuble socialisation time in it's new home. I always make a real effort to socialise puppies well around the home and I do make sure they've been out with me individually at least once or twice, but taking a whole litter of puppies out one at a time isn't really possible, so they do need to have most of their socialisation done in their new homes IMO.

However, there is a huge difference between deciding a puppy can go to it's new home at 7 weeks because yu believe that is best all round and deciding you 'want rid' and I have been more than happy to keep individual puppies for longer if the new owner requested this and there was a good reason. (holiday, for example)

shinky · 15/03/2012 16:58

Hi guys,thanks again for the advice,am still taking notes! Midori1999,you obviously have personal experience of breeding, in your opinion would you put this separation anxiety down to leaving his parents to early? He is a very happy little pup when we are around but as soon as he is left alone(even for a couple of minutes) he gets himself in such a state its upsetting to see.
I was very naive and inexperienced when I brought him and took the breeders word when she insisted he was ready especially as he was the only one left bless him (his siblings had already gone to new homes). I feel very angry about this as in hindsight I dont think she has acted in the puppies best interests at all (although I may be being unreasonable for thinking like this)

OP posts:
midori1999 · 15/03/2012 22:36

Some puppies do just get seperation anxiety, but the way breeders rear them can certainly help reduce the likelihood of it. For example, I would make sure that all of my puppies at least get used to spending time (short periods, 5-10 mins) away from Mum and their litter mates from about 5 or 6 weeks and also have at least one trip out with me. I also crate train, or start to and encourage new owners to use a crate, plus they leave toys, blankets etc with me to take home with them so they smell of the litter. I do believe this means it's less of a shock when the puppy leaves and makes it easier for it to go to it's new home.

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