Puppy dilemma

[Flatbread]

Hello,

Our dog has given birth to 9 pups 12 days back (alert: cute puppy photos on my profile)

Ok, we know she should have been spayed and we will do so asap. But now we have eight puppies to find homes for.

I called up the dogs trust near Glasgow and they said they can rehome all of them, and I should not go down the gumtree ad route. They don't need photos of our pups or anything. She said they could be rehomed within a week of being in the dogs trust ( we will take them in at 7 to 8 weeks)

I have never had any interaction with the dogs trust before, although the lady I spoke with was lovely. Do any of you have any experience with this trust? My pups will find homes, won't they? Most are absolutely gorgeous to look at, but one is a bit grey and we call her Gracie. I worry about her, she is not beautiful, but she has the most darling, gentle nature, a real graceful, soft dog. But not sure how superficial people are when they go to get pups.

Any advice on rehoming is welcome. If we do go down the dogs trust route, we will be giving a donation, we will be so thankful if all the pups find good, loving homes.

doing, your arguments are really quite inane.

If people want a pup, they want it for a reason. An older dog comes with a history and many families, especially with young children do not want the risk. They want a pup not because it is cute, but because it is easier to train, in many ways. They are making an informed choice.

I would much rather that they had access to my pups rather than paying big bucks to a breeder for a 'purebred'

I heart you Korma . But I am inane. Meh! Rather that than thick as pig shit.

If you take your pups to DT, yes, they will be rehomed.

In a month, or a year, or maybe longer they could come back. Then they will sit, and sit, and sit because they will no longer be cute puppies, and people won't want them.

Look at my profile. I rescued Gwen from Many Tears. When we took her they estimated her age to be 8-10 weeks. She was tiny. Sit on the palm of your hand tiny. She'd been taken from mum and dumped with her sibs far too early and we almost lost her twice in the first couple of weeks.

The many tears vet said she thought she'd stay small, that she'd probably had such a short time with mum that she wouldn't had had the nutrients she needed. That was fine with us, DD wanted a dog that she could have in her lap.

As you can see from the second picture the vet was wrong! Mutt is quite big, boisterous and a lunatic. If she isn't walked 3 times a day she is a nightmare. Another family may have sent her back for that very reason. We were prepared for anything she threw at us. Others may not have been.

That could be your pups. You can't say now what they will be like in a years time, or even 6 months time. That's why you can't rehome yourself.

A breeder is in it for the money. And please, try to make informed arguments instead of dramatic scenarios. We all know of dogs and children and adults who have been hideously mistreated. But anecdotes do not constitute an argument. And people who base their lives on the worst what-if scenarios are welcome to their neurotic existence.

I asked for experiences with the dog trust, that is it. I honestly think those of you who came up with unsolicited righteous wrath are bonkers and should take a good hard look at your own lives.

I must have missed the bit where I suggested or advocated breeding dogs based on looks. I think in all the time I've been on MN, that's probably the least likely thing I'd have said

However, I think I will join everyone else in the "neurotic" corner and leave you to it, Flatbread.

I wish your bitch and her pups well, and hope again, you rehome them responsibly.

All those unwanted older dogs with 'history' were cute puppies once. Didn't stop them ending up where they are now.

And the safest, lowest-risk option for a family with small children is surely to look for an adult dog with known temperament and history of living happily in a family home. People may think a puppy is the better option, but that is very often a badly informed choice. And often ends badly, hence the dog coming into rescue at a slightly older age.

With the old adage about never arguing with a fool firmly in mind, I'm out.

good, Anecu. Bye.

Flatbread, the fact you think breeders are in it for the money shows your ignorance on the subject. Puppy farmers and back yard breeders are in it for the money. Good breeders are in it for the love of the dogs, the breeds. They spend thousands of pounds each year showing their dogs, often thousands on mating them too, which may involve flights abroad and plenty of money and time properly rearing the pups. They also commit to those puppies for their entire lives and many take puppies or dogs they have bred back during owners holidays so they don't have to be kennelled, often without charge. If they are trying to make money, they haven't got very good business sense.

Does any one know want is the rehoming rate for the dogs trust? How good are they at matching families to dogs?

Also, any idea to what extent we can stay involved with the dogs? E.g., if they do come back to the trust, will they let us know and let us find homes for them?

I am really torn on whether I should trust dog's trust or maybe use our network of family and friends to home these pups. That way at least we will be in the loop on what is going on with the dogs.

Oh, and in response to the question about evidence. Here is a recent paper:-

"Characteristics of Relinquished Dogs and Their Owners at 14 Rehoming Centres in the UK" published in the Journal of Applied Animal Wlefare Science Vol 13 15 - 30, 2010 by Diesel, Brodbelt and Pfeiffer. Gillian Diesel is a highly respected academic working in this field - until recently she was based at the Royal Veterinary College, University of London, but is now advising DEFRA. She has produced a considerable body of evidence on this issue along with a number of other academic studies in this field, here in the UK and overseas.

Midori, I am not interested in breeders or treating a living being as a 'show dog' and breeding for certain desirable characteristics. I don't like it for my bananas (a large number of varieties are now extinct) or food, and certainly not for family members. There may be some breeders doing it for 'love', but it doesn't prevent them from taking money for the pups.

You may like breeders, I don't. That is not the point here. I want experiences, data, statistics, anything you may know regarding the dogs trust.

Thanks.

scuttle, thank you. Finally, some data. Is the dogs trust one of the rehoming centres they study? Also, could you provide a link, thanks.

Or breeders that treat their dogs as much loved family pets who also happen to show them if the dog likes it and because they are interested in the breed and want to better it, which includes the health of the dogs. Many breeders who show work their dogs too, so they have to be fit for function.

One of the reasons breeders take money for pups and charge what they do is that evidence shows that people who pay for dogs are far more likely to keep them.

beer, thank you for your incredibly well informed and thoughtful post. I appreciate your in-depth knowledge of my family and friends, who are all highly educated and in successful careers with lots of responsibilities, but are apparently just fanciful and ditzy when it come to getting a dog.

I bow to your superior judgement.

Midori, I get that about people more likely to keep dogs they have paid for. I think that is probably why the dog's trust charges people who adopt puppies. £150 seems to be a good amount, it shows commitment, but it is within reach for ordinary families who want a pet, not a show dog.

Btw, I really do know good breeders as well. When we leave our girl when we travel, we always use one lady who is a professional breeder. She is a total dog lover and our dog absolutely adores her. My comment was not about specific people, but about the broader industry.

You are just not listening flatbread.

Please for gods sake don't rehome these pups yourself. Pleas listen to ALL the people here that KNOW what they are talking about. Please.

Flatbread, are you keeping one of the dogs? Will you get that one spayed? Will you go to a different vet and get it down before first season?

midori- there ARE good breeders who are deeply involved in their breed and whose aim is to better the breed they love- this, to me is the ONLY reason to breed. (I know you agree with this!)

Flatbread- those of us who know what we are talking about (but possibly don't have a phd ) are trying hard to give you good advice re rehoming your pups, and are advocating going via the Dogs Trust.

You do have to take on board, however, that your "mistake" is going to cost the charity in excess of £1000. If you are truly responsible you will calculate this into your donation. Even if the DT "charges" £150 per pup it probably won't cover everything

Flatbread, I know you've had a hard time here. I was the one who first suggested you should make a sizeable cash donation to the Dogs Trust.

Actually I agree with a lot of your philosophies about breeding (including over population of humans and messing about with the genetics of bananas!). I am an environmentalist and currently considering adoption because of my own personal beliefs re: overpopulation.

But, none of those arguments are relevant to your situation. Please, just accept you've made a mistake, and that the Dogs Trust are the absolute best people to help you out now.

There are too many dogs in Britain in relation to the number of kind, loving homes. It's been a problem since I did work experience at 5 veterinary practices in the 1990s and it's still a problem now. In fact it's a global problem on an epic scale, not just a UK problem, but anyway I digress....

Whatever your intentions were, or are for the future of these pups, you are, in your own small way, contributing to this global problem, just the same way that people who choose to have kids are contributing to global over-population. (ooh controversial!).

Please, I go back to my earlier point, please donate to the Dogs Trust, or offer them some volunteer time. The same way that many people who use the services of Macmillan or Breast Cancer Care do. It's the right thing to do, just as giving the pups over to their expertise in rehoming is the right thing to do.

Enjoy these few weeks you have with the pups but please do the right thing by them and the Dogs Trust.

PS the Dogs Trust rehoming fee varies between £80 and £100 (I just checked their website).