Pedigree Dogs Exposed follow up - tonight 9pm BBC4

[yesbutnobut]

I'll be watching this eagerly. The original PDE led to the BBC dropping showing Crufts IIRC. It exposed the cruelty inherent in some of the 'extreme' breeds like bulldogs. From what I've read the maker of the programme has not found much improvement in pedigree dog welfare since the earlier programme, sadly.

I hear that the GSD follow-up has been dropped from the final program - apparently the fact that the GSD fraternity was already extremely progressive and, having been lobbying the KC for decades to make it mandatory for breeding animals to have low hip and elbow scores, have finally given up and now exhibit at their own independent shows which require extensive health tests and working qualifications in order to make the top levels.

But that wouldn't make good TV, would it?

All programs like this do is drive people into the arms of the backyard breeders and the bloody designer crossbreed market in the mistaken belief that they are healthier than any pedigree dog.

I have a cavalier, a breed which featured last time. Many of the breeders I spoke to when looking for my pup thought the programme was exaggerated, but of course the better breeders are very health conscious anyway. What I find quite mystifying is how people still think 'KC registered' is somehow a byword for a healthy dog, when the KC do not seem interested in any of the health tests that are available.

I'm very much looking forward to the programme - the first one helped to shine a light on what is a very murky world and sadly some prevalent attitudes. Look at a recent thread on here where people were discussing getting a bulldog with great enthusiasm, despite their catalogue of dreadful health problems.

Just had a look at the Crufts programme and there is certainly a GSD class. Will be very interesting to have a look at the confirmation of the eventual winner of Best in Breed.

There is a huge amount to be done on various aspects of dog breeding/welfare - ranging from the horrors of puppy farming to the astonishing levels of illness that are now normalised within some breeds, right through to the all too frequent abandonment of pups when they stop being cute and hit the difficult phase of adolescence. I am also deeply uncomfortable with the way certain trends of dogs can become fashionable very quickly - we are seeing this at the moment with the northern breeds yet they often do not make good pets, especially for inexperienced owners.

Scuttle, last year's GSD BoB had a list of working qualifications as long as your arm, all of which require a minimum level of health testing for entry - I can't remember the hip and elbow scores off the top of my head but they have to be within a normal/excellent range.

It's a huge shame that isn't the case for the majority of the other breeds appearing at champ shows around the country (not just Crufts, why does everyone go nuts about Crufts just because it's televised?) Can you imagine if breeds like bulldogs and pekes had to undergo a basic fitness test in order to compete?

Fingers should be pointed at the breeders of extreme brachycephalics and those with truly over-exaggerated features (Neopolitan mastiff springs to mind, there's plenty more as well) and the KC for allowing these, and the offspring of dogs with no health testing or sky-high results, to be registered.

I do think there is something of a dog crisis happening at the moment (I know all too well the issues with the northern breeds, every time they're mentioned my heart sinks a little, everyone wants one and there's so few equipped to deal with them) which is covered quite neatly in In Defence of Dogs by John Bradshaw, a very good read.

I LOVE the idea of bulldogs and pekes doing a basic fitness test! No argument from me on that.

However, I think it is impossible to ignore the customers in all this. Every puppy farm in the country could shut down tomorrow if there was no demand. Week after week on MN, we see the same arguments trotted out - we wanted to raise a puppy ourselves, we grew up with dogs so know what we're doing, you can't trust a rescue dog, my sister/friend/second cousin's aunt has just had a litter of really cute pups, it's only one litter, it's good for the children, etc etc. All those pups that are produced in Wales are being bought by someone - often by people who haven't done their homework and aren't prepared to pay the very high prices that really good breeders (and there are a few around) charge because good welfare isn't cheap.

And just look at the number of people here on MN who enthusiastically buy dogs who cannot breathe, and basically collapse into unconsciousness if they try to run around on a summer's day, can't give birth without a CS, and are prone to all sorts of other painful, life limiting conditions. The irony is that if I strangled, or hit my greyhound, or refused to treat their skin condition, I'd rightly be prosecuted. However, I can cheerfully breed a dog that is going to need major surgery just to be born, and will suffer painful lifelong conditions (arguably just as bad from a welfare point of view) yet that' fine, and I can even get a rosette for it. Madness.

Im was the person looking for a bulldog. After reading the replies i got on here and doing more research and actually calling the vets that are advertised as bulldog friendly vets, i decided against it. I also decided against CKCS due to the health issues. After watching this program i am very pleased i did.

good for you slutty

it was a v uncomfortable programme to watch

Slutty, well done! Wish there were more responsible people like you around.

As i a breeder who breeds for showing as well as pet homes.It makes me cross that all breeders are made to look bad. I have spent £200 on the litter today getting them tested.All our dogs are dna tested as well.
You then get people who breed designer breeds who do nothing as far as testing etc and are only in it for the money.
It will end up that people think the designer dogs are going to be more healthy than the pedigree ones but they are putting two dogs together with the same known problem, therefore only making the problem worse.

Best dog for you slutty- a mongrel, from a long line of mongrels. They are lovely.

You just don't see them anymore though, you do get cross breeds but it's not the same. Maybe I should set myself up breeding mongrels, I would just have to find a few first though.

ken, thats the problem. There aren't any around anymore. Im now seriously looking a bichons after 1 of the vets i spoke to recommended them as being a great family dog and are generally healthy dogs with some known health issues but none life threatening and avoidable/manageable. They dont like being left alone but that really isnt an issue for us as i am a SAHM and even when i get back to working im hoping to have my own business from home.

I found this programme very sad
Even more so that the people who can actually make a difference don't seem to think anything is wrong

I thought it was unbelievable that the owner of the CCKS which she knew had SM was continuing to breed it - how irresponsible can you get?

slutty- so glad to hear you decided against a bulldog- I remember your thread Lovely dogs, but so many problems.

Watched last night with increasing horror and sadness.

The programme has had me thinking on and off all day about the ethics of pedigree dog breeding. Not at all sure what I think about it all now.

I have always been under the impression that the breed club is the best place to start when researching good breeders. That they as an orginisation would be the most invested in the health, happiness and longevity of their breed. And yet last night showed quite the opposite. Quite extraordinary levels of inaction and opposition by the various breed clubs and KC to health screening and changes in breed conformity that could have a massive impact on morbidity and quality of life for the dogs they supposedly champion.

So, what do you think of this idea...?

I set up a register of mongrels and try to find matches to breed from only on the grounds of health and temperament, not looks. I recon I could end up with the perfect dog for you Slutty!

For me a dog that can't give birth without a major operation, breathe properly, or has a swollen brain shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a show ring. Sadly the puppies of a dog with problems like this that wins a rosette become more valuable as a result.

The Kennel Club know this so being very disingeneous in allowing these animals to be shown. A vetinary certificate of clear health should be a minimum requirement to enter the show ring. Until the kennel club man up and implement a policy like this I will never support them. Those same certificates should be produced by the parents of KC registered dogs.

I'm convinced the only way to choose a pedigree puppy is to go for one of the working breeds and then ask for examples of actual working dogs in the recent lineage. Dogs that work have by definition to be fit, which provides an incentive to avoid the worst genetic defects. Good on the GSD club for creating an alternative forum for those that do care. It's beyond cruel to deliberately breed in some of the health issues some of these breeds suffer.

KC registration isn't something I desired when choosing my own pet dogs over the years as they have had no real interest (lip service doesn't count) in the health of their dogs.

The general health of my last breed, the chihuahua has deterioated significantly in the last 20 years. Not many pups of this breed born this year will now live to 18 as a matter of course, like my example did. That disgusts me, when you consider the advances in scientific genetic knowledge made in that time.