Has your dog put you into a "pecking order"?

[diddl]

And if so are you, like me, bottom of the pile?

I walk the dog mostly three times a day-never less than two.
When I´m on my own with him he`s fine-comes back when called etc.

When I´m out with another family member he defers to them!

If I call him-hell come back but goes to them for his treat.

If I offer him a treat he won´t take it, but if I hand it to the person I´m with he´ll take it from them!!

Lucky for him that I love him so much

Do you feed him before yourself?

A good way to make the dog upgrade you is make sure you go through any door ahead of him and also to feed him last. This mimics pack order behaviour and could realign your proper position.

he may be seeing you as the one who eats last all the time?

I think that you give a shit what your dog thinks says a lot actually

dh was alpha male
i was alpha female.

Gah!

here dogs have a pack order or alpha what not. The new person is just more exciting and might have better treats. Simples.

Think cuddlycunt has a good point. Don't think I would be passing the treats over!

But when we use 'alpha' we're not talking about dominating doinmecleanin just talking about respect, or as per that article says - leadership. :)

But there is no alpha in the dogs mind, they walk out of the door first to get their walk started quicker, not to prove they are boss. They beg for food when you are eating because they are dogs and are greedy not because they believe they should be fed first because they want to be boss. They want to sleep on the sofa because it is comfier than the floor/rug/their bed and closer to you, not because they think they're equal to you. They really could not give a shite where they are in the pack so long as they are fed, watered and walked.

Dogs are quite simlpe, although very intelligent, if there is something in it for them then it's worth doing, if there is nothing in for them, then they'd rather sleep/eat/shag/piss.

Well it doesn´t bother me that much-was just wondering about it.

It´s like when the children were little & I was with them all day & did everything for them & lo & behold here´s Daddy & you wouldn´t see them for dust!

Doggy adores my teenage daughter-wise dog!-follows her everywhere-latched onto her as soon as we got him.

I´m not bothered enough to force him to watch me eat or make him wait behind me at the door.

He comes back when called & that´s enough for me when out.
He doesn´t run after other dogs, pull on the lead or jump up.

He only jumps up at us if we ask him for "cuddles", and only gets onto the sofa when told he can.

He´s a really placid, good natured dog & we´re so lucky to have him.

Diddl, what a lovely dog you have! You must be very proud of him. I think it's just as you and Dooin say - new person is exciting whereas he sees you all the time.

And it takes a lot of work to get a well-trained, placid dog so well done :)

Oh I can´t take any credit tbh-it´s his quiet nature.

He rarely barks-not even at the doorbell.

We´ve actually taught him to bark on demand so that we can hear him!

I am defo the alpha bitch

My boxer dog will not go through a door before me - and will attack her doggie sister if she tries. She is always fed after the family and places herself top of the animal pack but after all the humans. She is very precious about the other animals respecting her place at top of the animal hierarchy!

She feels very secure in this. When I had my babies smelly dog produced breastmilk - apparently when the alpha bitch gives birth in a wolf pack all bitch will help to feed the pups as they are so important.

It leads to a very peaceful life with boundaries - and much love.important with 2 dogs and 5 cats

Oeuf, Gin, Custard (is that a meal?), if you want to call yourself alphas that's up to you, but when talking about your dogs it really makes no sense. If you can be bothered to read Dooin's link, you'll find out why.

Sorry Red but just because you link to article does not make it so! Intelligent mammals live in hierarchical groups. It ensures survival and the discipline serves the greater good.

Violence is not always necessary - we are never violent to our dog. She is delighted to have her alpha bitch (moi) to look up to. It takes decision making away from her and leads to a very calm satisfied dog....

It's science, Oeuf. Canine behavioural science has moved on a long way and it's really quite exciting what they're finding out. You could read In Defence of Dogs by John Bradshaw if you're interested.

I'm glad you have a calm, happy dog.

Diddl, barking on command is very cool!

PhD in physiology/behaviour over here!! First degree from university Bradshaw did research in! Sorry, but one book/couple of papers may challenge thought but does not within the field of behaviour change the rules....

It may be exciting stuff, but we do not all need to subscribe to it :)

Umm....off debate: diddl, how did you teach your lovely dog to bark on command?

We also have a good natured non-barker (except at squirrels ) and I'd love to teach him to bark when he needs to go out, rather than sit mournfully at the door waiting. A one-off bark at doorbell would be handy, too - he currently doesn't bother getting off his bed for human intruders, only squirrely ones!

My daughter taught him.

She would say "bark" to him & make a barking noise herself until he copied.
Cue lots of praise & a treat.

He made the association very quickly.

He also rolls over & gives a high 5.

Sometimes though, when he sees you have a treat he´ll do a perfect sit in front of you without being told-then go through his repertoire-again, without being told-so maybe not that clever.

Of course he gets the treat as we all think it´s so cute!

My terrier does that everytime he sees me go to the fridge he's there in his 'sit' offering his paw. When that doesn't work he moves onto 'down' and then 'roll over' before going back to sit and paw

The hounds are not smart enough for that -or maybe they are too smart?- they simply stand there looking mounful and half starved

Just to add we do also give him treats without him having to do something for them

One of my dogs definitely has less reliable obedience when other people are around (he's as good as gold when it's just me and him, not that anyone believes me!).

I don't think it's a 'pecking order' thing though, just that there are more distractions etc with other people about, and he probably finds them more interesting than me, as he has me around all the time so no novelty factor. Especially if they give him treats.

Maybe I need to do more training with him while other people are around - though that's harder for me as well as him, as I get more stressed and self-conscious...

Yes - they both agree that I am pack leader. Sensible dogs!

I´ll just have to accept that everyone is more interesting than me-as far as the dog is concerned, anyway!

Well, lovely sunny day here so we´re off out for our afternoon walk.

Oeuf, congratulations on the PhD. I think it's unfair to describe it as "one book/couple of papers", but we can agree that your reading of the literature is different than mine.

Diddl, I think it's really cute when a dog goes through a repertoire of behaviours like that. Our Dog2 does that and will get through several behaviours while the husky is still trying to decide if the treat is good enough for him to bother getting up for.

I am pack leader at all times. Peppa prefers dh I think as he plays with her more and lets her on the sofa, but if I walk in she gets off and gets in her basket then once I have selected my seat she will come and try dogs trust face at me to see if I will allow her on the sofa. She also barges past dh and jumps up at him, but follows politely and rolls belly up as a greeting with me.
I'm always this way with animals though, learned the hard way with horses that you need love patience respect and boundaries that never move ever. 20kg of staffie barging through you at the door is mildly unpleasant but 750kg 17.2hh of horse doing it is bloody painful at best and potentially fatal at worst!

Btw, I don't know owt about dog psychology, but I do know shed loads about training horses, and tbh it's not much different. Body language backed up with tone of voice shows disapproval or pleasure instantly, no need to hit them, it doesnt work. don't reward or encourage behaviour that you don't want and as soon as the correct behaviour is shown loads of praise. Everyone comments how well trained loony dog is, she can be running around like a ballistic missile squeaking toy, but if I say peppa leave it, she drops toy, sits and waits for further instructions. Now if only I could train my kids that well......