Am I being fair to my pooches?

[MrsZoidberg]

We have three dogs:

S - middle aged GSD bitch, hip-dysplasia, can have big issues with other bitches, and nervous aggression to people - she's never bitten, but the potential is there if she was to be put in a bad situation.

B - 4 yo HuskyX bitch, typical husky, no recall, no loyalty, escapologist including off her lead and harness, v.bad carsickness, nothing small & furry is safe (not sure about small dogs, she once eyed up a Yorkie but I'm not sure if she wanted to play or eat it)

M - 3 yo GSD boy, entire. V bad fear aggression, dog and human. Has nipped when we first got him, before we realised just what a scared little boy he was. He's not been put in a situation since where he has to decide what to do.

All are rescues.

We also have a 2.5 acre paddock (Husky proofed, until she proves us wrong again )

Now this is where I'm not sure if I'm being fair. Should I also take them out for walks? Bearing in mind that none of them can come off the lead, and two of them would have to be muzzled. I would also have to walk them seperately.

I think S would be ok. We used to go to the beach when her two older brothers were with us, but she was always stressy, and pulled to get back to the car the second it was in sight.

With B, I was always scared, at the beach, that she would escape so I could never relax.

M would suffer a major meltdown at so many new dangers. He would also become very barky, and snarly, and I worry that I would lose his trust as he feels safe here.

So what does the Doghouse think? Should I take them out, or should I just let them race round the paddock?

I think it is vital that they are socialised (separately) with other dogs - but in a controlled, calm situation.

Do you have a GSD training club near you? Or better yet a mixed breed training centre? Any trainer/behaviourist would be able to help each dog with their issues.

Except the husky, law unto themselves.

You are very lucky to be in a situation where you can exercise your dogs on your own land. You have probably the best of both worlds-your dogs are able to socialise with each other in a safe and (hopefully!) secure environment and also can enjoy interaction with you. If you are worried they will get bored try to incorperate some obedience/agility training with each one separately (obviously not agility with the one with HD) to exercise their minds as well. I think forcing the issue of socialisation with other dogs is wrong,although the advice about trying a behaviourist is good, often even with their help you are only able to get to a stage where you and your dog can cope with being in the presence of other dogs and not actually enjoy it, if that makes sense. If people are unable to exercise their dogs without coming into contact with other dogs then seeking advice from a recognised behaviourist (and not just a random dog trainer!) is the best plan but that is not your situation. Don't beat yourself up about walking them-your dogs will get enough exercise and stimulation if you put your mind to it with grounds of that size-enjoy them rather than worrying about it!

all dogs need exercise daily, and especially the breeds you have. they need to be mentally stimulated. its true that you shouldnt be worrying because that will just make it all a stressful situation. have you looked into purchasing your own agility equipment? or even build it yourself! lol know sounds silly but if you could stimulate them inyour land first then walk second. they should become very calm satisfied doggies x

Hi Jax. I could work on the two GSDs, S especially is manageable, I do occassionally take her out, but I'm not sure she enjoys it.

M is in a safe little cocoon here and is unlikely to meet other dogs, so is it fair to subject him to the scary outside world?

With B, I keep threatening to staple her collar to her neck - as her head is so sleek there's little to stop the collar sliding over her ears - a fact that she knows and understands and uses when she's fed up with whatever we want her to do. Grrrr (I whinge about this dog more than ALL other dogs put together but secretly love her to bits )

They do get enough exercise, they get lots of stimulation, so my question is really, do they need to go out for more?

Hi Monstergoose, that's what I was trying to get to. I don't think the GSDs enjoy meeting other dogs, so I would be walking them for myself and not for them iyswim.

The Husky is besotted with other dogs and would be cross that she couldn't play with them - I have no recall with her in the house let alone at a beach! She also plays very rough, which is fine with thick coated, large GSDs but scares me when she plays with PiLs spaniels.

misslala - I tried the agility idea, mainly to give the Husky something to do. She took one look at it, walked off and sat and watched the one with HD with a huge amount of disdain when she played with it

The Husky gets loads of stimulation, unfortunately for the mole and rabbit population we have in the field.

It sounds like they get enough exercise already. It's great that you have the paddock for them. Do you enjoy taking them for walks?

Being on a lead isn't a problem, a dog can still enjoy going for a walk. My husky x is never off-leash on our walks but he still loves them. And I think it's good for them to experience the world outside. I think I would walk them for that reason - just to keep them used to streets and cars and other people and so on.

Your husky x sounds like quite an escape artist. I am really lucky with mine, every time he has escaped he has come back when called as if he has perfect recall (only outside. inside he is too lazy to get up and find out why you are calling him, unless he hears the lead jangle).

Haha I have the same issue with moles!! He ate one in front of some horrified neighbours and it was so embarrassing.

Mine responds to food rattling . She's a nightmare. We spent ages (and a fortune) fencing along three sides of the paddock, the fourth was protected by a very thick hedge - not anymore - it now has large Husky sized gaps in it! The 4th side is now fenced, but I still feel that if she wanted to, she would find a way out.

I used to enjoy walking dogs, but then I had lovely, calm biddable dogs. We took on the two GSDs knowing the issues they had. M was due to be PTS, but he was only 10 months old, and none of it was his fault. A GSD rescue got wind of it, and thankfully saved him and his 3 brothers. He is the cuddliest, most obedient doglet you could wish for, but when he's stressed, he's dangerous - although I truly believe he wouldn't hurt me.

S loves going out in the car, but when you take her out of the car, you can feel her tense up. I could work on her, and will probably do so. But with her HD, I'm not sure lead walking is kind.

I can't split M & B up, so if I take one, I have to take the other, which means 2 of us, last time I took B out she dragged me into a canal after a water rat, so I definitely would need someone else with me, if only to hold them whilst I dried out

When B was quite young - less than a year, she brought back a Hare! She came running upto my horrified MiL with it dangling either side of her mouth, and tripping over it. She was most put out that we didn't admire her achievements!

like the idea of getting some agility equipment

The dogs probably would be fine with being exercised in a large field not so sure about a small paddock - but if you are stimulating them as well and training regularly.

However I feel that for their own happiness you need to work on making them a little bit more resilient. Unfortunately it is very unlikely that they can spend the rest of their lives just in your paddock without any interaction from other humans, dogs or any other outside influence. For that reason I would want to work on de-sensitising them to their fears so that they can feel happier and more confident in more situations. It would also make your live much easier in the long run

Have you tried a lupi harness combined with a halti/canicollar for the husky escapologist? The lupi pulls tighter around the body when the dog pulls against it making it impossble (trust me!) to get out off. Its not great for control though-I don't find many harnesses are, as the head/neck aren't under control so I use the halti in addition for that. I've got a double ended lead (think it's made by the same company as halti) which I clip 1 end onto the harness and 1 end onto the halti. It works for me when my dogs get fiesty and worked up (think pulling backwards/barking to try to eat the friendly neighbourhood westie!). When I get to areas where I can see further ahead (ie can see other dogs coming) I switch to using an extendable lead on the lupi and take off the halti. It's a bit of a hassle but it allows me to walk my 2 wonderful dogs where I might meet others without stressing about control/other dog issues.

I think people that can walk their dogs anywhere without worrying about them don't know how lucky they are!

MrsZ, I know what you mean about not being able to separate the husky from another dog. We got Dog2 to be a companion to the husky, and they have bonded really well, which is great. But I make a point of separating them for a brief period regularly so that the husky is used to being without him, and tbh it's something I'm still working on. I do this because there is bound to be a time when one dog has to go to the vet without the other, and I don't want to add separation anxiety from the other dog to the situation. Might be worth considering with yours? For us it was either get him used to being separated from Dog2, or get a third dog as back-up so as to never leave him alone. I don't think we are ready for a third dog yet! [Though when we are, it will be another husky/malamute].

A hare is quite a catch!!

also just noticed your comment about lead walking and HD MrsZ, it is actually better than off lead exercise as you are controlling it and limiting the twisting/turning motions you get with off lead exercise. Think of her as an old banger-you want to take short trips to the shop rather than long runs up and down the motorway!

Yes they need to be walked in different places and areas- even tho u have a big area of land they will get used to that as their territory and they need to experience all sorts of other areas etc to help them with their variety of issues. The husky would probably benefit from som form of working activity as well so she can drain her energy.

Thanks Monstergoose for the harness idea. There is no way she would wear a Halti, but she is actually quite good on a lead - unelss she sees something small and furry [ grin] so just the harness and double lead should work. My "old-banger" just pootles around the garden, it's rare I can get her to get up any speed.

Redwing My Husky went through a stage of visiting the vet on a frequent basis, M was fidgety but so long as he could see me he was fine. The Husky doesn't do "alone" so I can only take M out when someone is there to distract her, otherwise I'll come back to utter devastation. (New cushion and a Sky remote this week, cos I told her off). We did have a fourth dog but sadly lost him last year. He was my last "easy" dog. We haven't needed to leave her alone since.

S is kept apart from the other dogs as she has developed an intense dislike of B and almost killed her 18 months ago. I did speak to a behaviourist but realised that I would never trust her again, so they stay seperate. S seems to enjoy being an only dog, she gets to come to work with us every day ( we work at home in a seperate building).

I think you've got a real bundle of issues there. Firstly, you are incredibly fortunate in having enough land to be able to exercise at home. I think the idea of the agility stuff at home sounds brilliant.

I would take minimu's idea about working on some of the issues and think about maybe hosting some get togethers in the longer term for similar breed dogs, once you've tackled some of hte worst issues. For instance, two of ours are hopeless with small furries but adore meeting other greys, so if I was in your shoes, we'd stop walking in the park, but would invite selected grund friends over for controlled social activities. Not sure if this could work for instance for your husky.

Love the idea of going running with dogs. Also depending on where in the country you live there ARE sufficiently remote and wild places to go where you can avoid other dog walkers and still give the dogs the stimulation which they really enjoy of going somewhere different, especially since presumably you can go on weekdays during the day when they are at their quietest.

Good luck!

I think you've got a real bundle of issues there - Yep, it's only when you write it down that you realise that there are issues

They kind of crept up on us as we added each "problem" dog to the pack. We had two very gentle GSDs, we lost one and added another gentle giant. We then wanted a feisty female to keep the boys in line, and this was our mistake, she became too feisty! We then added the Husky in a moment of madness (she was such a poorly puppy, that she looked like the runt of a GSD litter, and the RSPCA thought that was what she was aswell), and I've no excuse for M except he looked like one of the ones we lost, DH saw him on my PC screen and rang the rescue whilst I was out - so a DH madness moment - but he's mine, all mine now, I adore the pesky thing.

We were going to move, so this was really a non-issue as I would have had to walk them, it was only now we've decided to stay put, that I started wondering if the field was enough.

It would seem that the concensus of Doghouse opinion, is I need to walk them.

Sorry Scuttlebutter, meant to say, we live in Somerset so we have the Quantocks, Mendips and Polden Hills, and a lovely quiet beach in winter - all of which are too far for the Husky and her travel sickness! We made it to the beach once (approx 20 mins) but hit bloody tourist traffic on the way back, and she puked for 40 mins!

The Vets is 10 mins away, and she could manage that so long as we always went exactly the same route. So we've slowly started building up how far we can take her and in different directions. The Quantocks are lovely, so that is our goal for her.

MrsZ you have such lovely places to go for walks!! I hope you can get (at least some of) them used to driving and walking as you'll have so much fun.

We've had many happy excursions on Will's Neck and similar as ILs live very near there It's gorgeous and parts of it are definitely very remote and quiet especially at this time of the year.

Is there any medication vet can recommend for travel sickness?

There are medications that can be used to help prevent travel sickness but these are only really useful on a short term basis-perhaps for a one-off journey rather than on a regular basis. What can be useful is trying to habituate them to the car journey-sometimes nerves can play a large part in travel sickness too. You can try initially just feeding them in the car until they are comfortable, then turing the engine on whilst feeding, then driving round the block-gradually over a periods of weeks increasing the 'exposure' to the car without scaring them. You don't want to move onto a bigger stimuli until the dog is happy and not showing any signs of nerves if that makes sense. Sometimes changing where the dog is in the car can help-my dog used to get sick in the boot but was much better in a harness on the back seat initially. Obviously that does depend a little on the dog-the last thing you want is a 40kg dog landing in your lap mid drive!
Hope that helps x

Hi Monstergoose. She doesn't appear to be worried about the car - she's odd as she actually enjoys going to the Vets, they all spoil her rotten when she's there. She was very poorly when we first got her, and then very accident prone and also typical Husky, she ate loads of stuff that she shouldn't - such as my mobile, tv remotes, house phone, books, bottle of sunscreen! so she spent a lot of time there. So if I load her in the car, she assumes that's where we're going and gets all excited.!

We have a canal walk in the opposite direction, she's fine going there, but M can't go as it's too full of dog walkers and it's a narrow path so it would just blow his mind at the moment.

She is unfortunately sick on the back seat and in the boot. I can stave it off for a short while by feeding her biscuits, but then she starts feeling rough and won't take anymore. Starving her before the journey also doesn't work, we then get bile or dry heaves. I wanted to try sea sick bands but she'd just chew them .

She is slowly getting better but due to all the issues we've had, we've been lazy in taking them out. Spring is coming - I just need to get it sorted before the tourists descend!