Recall - will we ever master it?

[jasperJohns]

My dog is 10 months old.

His recall is pretty good if there's nothing better on offer!

We have trained with a long line, I use a proper dog whistle, I make a huge fuss, I take the best treats ever. He has even been castrated.

Most of the time he flies back to me like a star. I whistle and recall at random times - so most of the time it's not to put him back on the lead.

However, if there's another dog or sometimes, if he just gets carried away and takes off - there is no chance of him coming back.

I don't know what else to do. I just can't seem to make myself a better proposition than another dog to gallump with.

Will it improve with time?

I feel the same. Mine is 8 months. I cannot compete with hedgerows full of rabbits. It's making me nervous to take him out. He DOES come back, I've never lost him or had to chase him, but he doesn't come back quickly. I'm reading and trying lots of advice. And trying to stay confident.

I agree - I have turned into this anxious person out on walks, whereas at first (and before he got naughty) I was all 'the trees, the fresh air, this is lovely'!

He has twice shot off at 500mph towards a main road. I have AGED, I tell you.

I have the same problem. I live in a country where there are chicken bones everywhere (no I have no idea either!) and if she finds one, nothing will bring her back. Also other dogs. She comes back to whistle or recall 90% of the time, and I try not to call her unless I am sure she will come, but sometimes I miss-time it and she ignores me for whatever she's found, or she gets distracted on the way back to me. She's 11 months old.

There's another thread about this.. Someone calls her training method Square BAshing. I think we do something similar. It basically involves taking the runaway dog out, and growling if he leaves my side, and praising generously when he is there. HOrror dog came to live with us at 6 months, and he's now 2. We took him to a sheepdog trainer about 6 months ago, who deals with recall problems, and he is now like a different dog. I'll see if I can find the other thread.

Mine is also nearly 10 months old. He was getting squirrel-happy a few weeks back, I posted about it and got lots of tips.

Basically, what worked was a mix of silent's technique and, quite simply, recalling before he took off. Distracting, 'getting in his face', and then treating when he stayed/came. He hasn't chased a squirrel for at least 10 days now

I do think time plays a part with adolescent dogs, too!

I've read that other thread and I couldn't really relate to any of the advice given. My dog does all those things really well (walking to heel on and off lead, stopping into an immediate sit when I stop, and having quite good focus on me). I don't want her to stick to my side like glue when off lead as I get fed up of entertaining her so I want her to pootle about having a good sniff and leaping around. I just want her to come back when I want to play with her or do some training with her or if I need her to come back to me for any other reason. I don't want to growl at her just because she wants to go and sniff a rock or something (if she's off lead).

square bashing growling at your dog

Ok recall is easy. You think it means come here but the dog must think it means something great is going to happen. Then you will get 100% recall.

I also work on a reward circle which helps a lot. I will come back to that.

Good recall will become a conditioned response if done correctly and it is so easy to do but you must not get slack. If your dog is already ignoring your recall retrain with a new command or whistle pitch.

Call your dog somewhere with no distractions and run away - have a favourite toy or the best treats ever not kibble. Toys are better as they give a longer reward but some dogs prefer food. Reward and have a fantastic game cuddle or give lots of small amounts of treats. Run away again calling the dogs name etc build this up to be done in areas with distractions.

You have to be on the look out for your dogs body language it is much easier to stop a bolt before it occurs so if you see a dog coming and do not want your dog to play turn quickly and run in the opposite direction and your dog will follow you.

The reward circle is great for teenage dogs, I have an area around me which all dogs get rewarded for being in. It is about a 3 foot circle around me. If my dogs come into that area they get rewarded especially when out and about, they have my full attention, they will be asked to do tricks, get rewarded and totally spoilt. You will find that if your reward circle is strong enough the dogs will need encouragement to go out of this area anyway when out walking, their default position will be circling around you.

Mine is a nightmare, I can't let him off lead unless we're in the fenced in dog park. He is 17 months old, had him since he was 9 weeks. He was great until he was about 5 months old; now, nothing works.

If he gets off the lead or out the front door by accident, we can't catch him for anything. He won't come for treats, toys, etc, won't get near enough for us to grab him.

Even at the dog park I normally have to enlist help to catch him. He gets distracted from avoiding me when other people/dogs are there, so I have to grab him or get someone else to when he's busy sniffing.

It's bloody embarrassing, and I'm really afraid he's going to get hurt one of these times when he bolts out the front door. We are on a cul-de-sac, but he's getting bolder about going further and further (he is neutered though!).

I've cross posted, Mini, do you think the reward circle would be able to progress on to letting me reattach his lead? I've been only giving him a treat if he takes it from me, but he won't get close enough! Maybe I need to be throwing them on the ground for a while to encourage him to just be near me when we're out?

In the house I can't keep him away from me, but the minute we're outside it's a completely different story.

Minimuu, I think I am doing pretty much all you say. I am on the look out for other dogs all the time & usually spot them. Yesterday ds and I played a great game where we stood at opposite ends of a field and, armed with whistles & cheese, got the dog to run to each of us. It wore the dog out nicely and he loved it. But previous to this, he saw another dog and that was it - suddenly impervious!

I guess I'll just have to persevere and work on that circle!

I don't want Mouse to stick to me like glue either, I have to say he's so happy playing with other dogs and I never try and call him straight back to me unless there's a very good reason (eg other dog on lead, or scary-looking, or am late for school run!).

I don't growl, either - but I do lots of praising and treating when he's near me. He's food obsessed, so it works beautifully, but for some reason his recall is just as good with dh ( who forgets to take treats half the time)

tbh, playing with another dog and going temporarily deaf (for a minute or two) wouldn't worry me. Taking off for no reason and going a long way away, would: too many roads - we live near a Common in SW London.

I thought 'square bashing' was something to do with walking to heel? Must have read that one too late at night!

What people usually don't do enough of, is proofing and building up to the distractions. So dog recalls in the garden, people relax think recall is sussed and do not up the distractions gradually.

So if you have good recall in the house, garden then try on lead outside the school gates, then move to park, then move to just a single dog on a lead , the move to the beach etc. I never ever call my dogs to be put on the lead until they are quite big. Remember recall is the beginning of good things for the dog not the end of a walk or freedom.

When the dog is near you at the end of the walk or even in the middle then attach the lead.

Are you a dog trainer minimuu? You make it all sound so easy!

JJ lol! Yes she is - and one of the best I reckon, given her experience and the advice she gives out freely on here :)

Elibean My dogs don't stick to me like glue but their preferred position is near me - they see that I am a good news and that good things happen when they are near me. Once that is sorted all the rest of the training is very easy. Of course they will go off - usually to the "go play" command but they will check back in again to me on regular intervals just to see what they are missing out on

I work sheep with my dogs and do agility and tracking (when they have to be in front) and distance obedience so they have to be happy to work away from me and will do so, however they will start happily near me and end happily near me.

Yep Dog trainer JasperJohns

How do you build up the distractions? Like I said, she will come 90% of the time, but sometimes more exciting things are about, like a buried chicken BBQ or another dog. I can't seem to find a way to build up to these gradually - they're either there in her environment or they're not, if you see what I mean.

I think I do the 'reward circle' thing anyway - she always gets a treat every time she comes running up to me on the beach and I also try and make myself really exciting by finding skanky old litter plastic bags and bottles for her to play with on the beach (she's not interested in toys, but plastic bags are the most exciting thing in the world apparently).

But I can't compete with a buried chicken BBQ (even though she gets chicken for dinner every day anyway!) or other dogs.

Also, using her name as a recall command stopped working (because we had family staying here over Xmas who used it out of context), so I switched to using an Acme whistle - trouble is that that is not always 100% effective now either, so I am worried I've 'broken' it.......because there's been at least one occasion a day when I've blown the whistle and she's ignored me (we practice recall 10-20 times a day).

Get imaginative

Put bits of sausage on the floor and recall your dog over the sausage. If she can do this she can easily leave a rotten chicken bone. Or get a chicken bone and recall her from that BUT you will have to build up to that.

So start with basic recall
Then put some biscuits in a tub on the floor and try and recall from that - if that is too much just put an empty tub on the floor etc.

Put a bowl on the floor that has been used so has a food smell but not much food and recall her over this but I can not stress enough you need to work up to this.

Reward circle is not just for outside it is for everytime she is in this position.

Whatever is her distraction work up to it. One of my collies goes crazy for bird sqwarking so I play the noise on the internet indoors - when she can work with no distraction with this noise then I take the sound into the garden etc then out and about.

Training is about succeeding so small little steps to start with.

Only give her meals through working for the recall. Not a bit distaance but make it quick ast and exciting. Throw the food away from you so she runs to get it then call her back instantly she has eaten the food and reward, again throw the food out and then when she has eaten it call her back etc.

Thanks Minimuu and sorry for hijacking your thread JJ!

I just tried what you suggested, had the dog in the lounge doing 'sit', threw some kibble down on the floor, slightly to the side of her. I showed her I had some liver in my hand.

I then walked back away from her keeping away from the kibble, and recalled her. She won't walk straight over the kibble (she stops and gobbles it up!) but I can get her to pass near it.

Is this the right sort of thing?

I don't think I will ever get her to walk over a sausage, but I can try! Liver is my ultimate treat, but it still never seems to beat BBQ chicken bones!

Minimuu all really useful tips there, thanks - again!

Its always reassuring when you post, because a lot of the time I find I'm doing right things instinctively - though not always. I tend to go wrong when I listen to some scrap of 'training advice' from an unknown source.

Glad to hear its ok to let dogs go off at some distance too, I was confused about that. I automatically say 'go play' when Mouse is moving off to play

I do think that a lot of what is going right for me is down to luck - Mouse seems to want to be close to us most of the time anyway, now that the squirrel-hunting thing has died down, and clearly sees me as the Source of All Treats

I think that training a dog is a massive commitment. It is really good to see on here that so many people are trying as much as they can and reading as much as they can to help their animals.

It is wonderful, Minimuu that you are here, and a great font of knowledge, which most of us are not in a position to aquire. My dogs are not my job, and as such I can only do the best I can and look and learn.
It was awful having a dog who bolted. Really horrible. It took a long time to find a way to work with him. He was very aloof, and really took no notice of anyone including the other dogs. The behaviourist (APDT) I contacted told me to do what I was doing anyway and frankly horror dog would probably be dead by now had I continued with that particular method of recall, treats, running away, trying to be exciting...a long line.. There was something about my behaviour towards this dog that he simply felt no need to take any notice of me whatsoever, or indeed anyone else...
I have heard of the reward circle. For me, I need to practice in the company of someone who understands!

Feesh it sounds as if recall past food is just too hard at the moment. So make it easier for her. Can she recall past a toy on the floor without stopping, I don't know her so it is up to you to make it easier for her to start with. Then gradually you can make it harder.

What this does show is that her recall is only effective with a slight distraction so building on this will make all the difference.

Silent Catastrophe My dogs aren't my job although I make them work! Other peoples dogs are my job I wish I could have seen your boy. Often bolting is a major stress reliever so sometimes there is much more to the situation than just a dodgy recall. It certainly sounds like this in your case.

I practice everywhere and anywhere, carparks are great places (dogs on lead obviously) Football pitches on a Saturday afternoon, car boots sales anywhere where there are distraction and loads of things going on. Beside tennis courts is great for ball obsessed dogs - they need to be working with me not the ball on the court. Riding schools if you get permission, Beaches where other dogs are off lead etc

I am going to keep re-reading this thread!

I got my dh to read it and he had a fantastic walk today - trying really hard to do everything right!

I am going to view it as training for all of us. I might take him to the common tomorrow which will be a challenge as it's dogsville.

How interesting you say that, MInimuu. A dog walker I know used to take out 2 collies, and one of them would bolt. She said it was because it was terrified of the other one. I am sure that to horror dog running away was the best relief for something ever. All we know about him is that he spent the first 3 months of his life on a farm. He is from working stock. He then went to live with a large family. At 6 months he came to us. He had not been allowed off lead in his time with the family and had not been trained.
I recognise about other things being involved than just a dodgy recall. I spoke to soooo many people about it! If you lived where I live, Minimuu, I hope you would have come to see us too! Anyway, horror dog now seems much more grounded and interested in us and his toys and his treats. It is very clear that he is a working dog, and I have said already somewhere that he makes me feel quite inadequate as he is so sharp and on the ball!

Horror dog's behaviour could well be stress relief. He used to be very aloof, and he certainly wasn't deaf when he ran off. How do dogs get like that, and what would you do?