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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Original poster

Is it time to say goodbye?

44 replies

DaydreamDolly · 28/01/2012 18:01

Our big boy, a Bernese Mountain Dog, 8.5yrs old, has had arthritis for a year, which has now been identified on X-ray as severe Sad
He hasn't eaten properly for a week. Just a few tit bits. Vet seems to think he'll be ok once we've put him on complete rest, but he's so unhappy. And he's wasting away before our eyes.
He keeps falling over and the last 2 days has started whimpering whilst just lying down.
I think our vet is happy for him to continue as long as we are buying the monthly expensive arthritis medicine, but I can't let him go on like this, can I?
Advice much appreciated. Thanks all.

OP posts:
Bossybritches22 · 28/01/2012 18:04

Oh DD it does sound like it might be time, you poor love I know it's so awful, in tears of sympathy here I've had to do it and it breaks your heart.

If he is suffering and the medication doesn't sound to be helping then it is kinder. But it is only your choice to make.

Big hugs x

pud1 · 28/01/2012 18:11

It is such a heartbreaking decision but I does sound like the best thing to do for the dog.

Original poster
DaydreamDolly · 28/01/2012 18:12

Thanks so much for your reply. It's so awful isn't it and the vet seemed so positive about him getting better on rest but he's been rested a week and he's getting worse if anything. I feel like the vet will think I want him gone, which isn't the case I just can't bear to see him so unhappy. And complete rest, no more walks, ever. How miserable for him Sad
What I am really concerned about is the lack of appetite. It's not pain as he's on strong medication. If he carries on he'll starve himself to death Sad Sad

OP posts:
SecretNutellaFix · 28/01/2012 18:15

Ask for a second opinion.

My old border collie was the same in her final 2 weeks, but she had also developed mammary tumours.

It took us a week to make the decision- I wish we had made the decision earlier.

BCBG · 28/01/2012 18:15

Anything else wrong the vet has missed?

Bossybritches22 · 28/01/2012 18:19

Sounds like he just can't be bothered to eat I'm afraid. Will your vet come out to the house?

Our lovely vet did when our boy (choccy lab) had to be PTS as he was a big old lump and we didn't want to distress him unduly.

She was lovely came with her receptionist who doubled as assistant and he drifted off with us all holding a paw, cuddling him & telling him we loved him. Sad

Sorry don't want to upset you further....

Scuttlebutter · 28/01/2012 18:39

Daydream, are you in the UK? I ask as it sounds very odd for your vet to simply say "No more exercise,ever" and simply leave you like that. Generally for arthritis your dog will be prescribed an anti-inflammatory plus pain relief. Advice will also be given on the various other aspects of managing the arthritis such as maintaining a lean, optimal weight, keeping dog warm, and doing everything to maintain muscle strength around affected joints so things like hydrotherapy or physiotherapy will be used. Other options include Cartrophen injections. Did your vet discuss all this when arthritis first diagnosed? have you been offered referral to specialist/veterinary teaching hospital?

What you've described sounds very different and I would want to be urgently seeking a second opinion on pain relief/not eating - we have a 12 year old with arthritis and she eats like a horse, but that's because we have a very carefully managed programme of care to look at QOL. From what you have described I would want to be ruling out any bone cancers and doing a thorough check of medication/blood tests.

If your dog is reaching the end of the line, I'd have hoped your vet would discuss this with you along with options for making her passing as comfortable as possible. Sad

Wishing you all the best.

mycatsaysach · 28/01/2012 18:40

sounds a bit odd to me too - i would get a 2nd opinion

spiderlight · 28/01/2012 18:51

Oh, bless you :( Poor lad. I agree that it's time for a second opinion, but if you're no further forward after that and you truly feel that he's had enough, a promise of no more pain is the last and kindest gift you can give him.

Original poster
DaydreamDolly · 28/01/2012 19:43

Scuttle, no mention of anything to help him other than the medication! I am starting to realise my vet is shit Sad
He initially thought it was bone cancer as dog presenting as lame in front right leg, he felt shoulder and said 'muscle wastage, think that's a tumour, will X-ray'
He only x ray'd that one leg which thankfully showed no tumour, but clearly showed signs of severe arthritis in the elbow, plus he thought there was a possibility he had chipped the bone as there was a tiny particle floating (you could barely see this)
So, he put the appetite loss down to pain and prescribed tramadol (4 a day) on top of his normal arthritis medicine. The limp has gone, the appetite has not returned. He should have done more tests shouldn't he?? D you think I should not bother to even take him back there to demand more tests, and instead go to a different vets? He's never ever lost his appetite before in his life.
Thank you everyone for your replies and sympathy, these boys and girls are such a worry aren't they.

OP posts:
Original poster
DaydreamDolly · 28/01/2012 19:44

Ps perhaps I misunderstood what he said about rest? Maybe he meant rest for the 2 week course of the tramadol. Hard to take everything in at once when I was just so relieved it wasn't cancer.

OP posts:
Bossybritches22 · 28/01/2012 22:28

Just a thought, when my first dog had a bad back leg injury he got totally constipated on the painkillers & of course because he couldn't squat properly, it got worse & he went off his food.

Could you get a second opinion quite easily?

Original poster
DaydreamDolly · 29/01/2012 08:08

Ah that's a point BB thank you, vet did say the painkillers could cause constipation.
He woke us up crying at 3am, wanted to be let out but wouldn't come back in again so DH left him out there. When I let him in again this morning he seemed much brighter, very waggy, but I've put tuna in his bowl to tempt him and he sniffed it and walked past.
Second opinion at a different vets tomorrow is the plan.

OP posts:
Bossybritches22 · 29/01/2012 09:26

Our vet gave us liquid parafin which we had to give mixed in with very little dog food and a handful of bran. He wasn't impressed but we got it down him. It worked after 3 days, not a quick fix but the relief on the poor boys face!

I'm glad I suddenly remembered, not saying it IS the cause but it would be wonderful if it were something that easy to fix!

Hollyfoot · 29/01/2012 09:35

Firstly am so sorry that your lovely boy is struggling. Our lab (sadly we have just lost her to cancer) also had arthritis so she had tried every painkiller going over the years. When she tried tramadol, it made her very sleepy (it is known for that apparently). Could it be that he isnt eating because he is just so sleepy? Or as others have said, it could be the constipation.

Definitely get a second opinion. Coming at things from the other side IYKWIM, it was very important for us to know that we had tried everything for our girl before making any difficult decisions.

Everything crossed that the second opinion helps.

Bossybritches22 · 29/01/2012 09:42

Holly you are so right, we had tried everything non-interventional with our choccy lab.

The next step was exploratory surgery which at his advanced age we felt unfair and cruel. So it made that final call slightly less difficult.

I'm so sorry you lost your lab- they are such family dogs aren't they?

Original poster
DaydreamDolly · 29/01/2012 14:40

I'm inclined to think its something else though as the loss of appetite started last Saturday and just hasn't improved, and he's only been on the Tramadol since Friday. Poor boy. I feel better now I have made the decision to get a second opinion.

OP posts:
mycatsaysach · 29/01/2012 17:43

good luck x

Bossybritches22 · 29/01/2012 17:56

Fingers crossed Dolly xx

PuggyMum · 29/01/2012 18:01

Marking my place to see how you get on DD x sending puggie hugs to you and your boy x

Original poster
DaydreamDolly · 29/01/2012 20:11

Thanks everyone. He's lying here looking at me with those big doleful eyes. Sad Wish I could make him better! He wouldn't even eat roast dinner left overs tonight, totally unheard of. Although he did manage a sausage this morning. No limp so I have not given Tramadol tonight as I don't believe he's in pain anymore as we are managing the arthritis with Loxicom as usual. Hoping it'll make a difference but really clutching at straws.
Will update tomorrow once I have made an apt at a different vets.
Forgot to mention I am also 8 months pregnant with a 2.5 yr old toddler so getting the boy to the vet and back is a bit tricky! We can do it though, we have to. Other vet is literally a 3 minute walk from our house so am thinking if we take it slow we can walk there and back, that would be easier than trying to get his old cracking bones in and out of the car.
Really appreciate everyone's concern, thank you all so much xx

OP posts:
MrsWhitaker · 29/01/2012 20:57

FWIW if tramadol has the same effect on dogs as it does on humans he probably felt a bit spaced out while he was on it. I used to have to take them a lot and I was a bit of a space cadet on them. Fingers crossed that he perks up a bit now you are managing with the Loxicom. I too would be looking for a second opinion. :(

Original poster
DaydreamDolly · 29/01/2012 21:16

He's definitely perkier without the Tramadol but that's the only (slight) improvement.

OP posts:
SP0104 · 29/01/2012 21:52

oh no - big hug to you.
when our GSD had advanced CDRM (arthritis) the vet said the time to go is when she is distressed or cant go to the toilet on her own (without us holding her up).
Its a hard decision to make isn't it - we cancelled the appointment three times before we wentahead wth it.
Just remember you gave him the best life you possibly could.

Scuttlebutter · 29/01/2012 22:35

The questions I'd be thinking about for tomorrow :-

Can you confirm he definitely has arthritis causing these joint problems or should we be worried about anything else e.g. bone cancer ? Is it just in this joint or in any others (or potentially likely to spread)?

If it is arthritis, what is the best care package for its ongoing management, taking into account pain relief and maintaining/supporting flexibilitity and muscle strength around the joint? Would hydrotherapy and/or physiotherapy be indicated? What about weight management? Are there further tests that would be beneficial? Would referral to a specialist orthopaedic vet be of any use?

As part of the package of care, do we need to do any blood tests to measure liver/kidney functions etc?

Appetite/pooing - how likely is loss of appetite to be linked to meds or to pain? How can we restore? Advice for managing constipation if an issue in future.

What are the things we need to think about in terms of Quality of Life going forward? Key milestones? Should we be thinking about our difficult decisions now or is that still in the future?

Wishing you all the best for tomorrow, Dolly..

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