Bolting? Selective Hearing? Frazzled Nerves

[alp]

So we have a 9 month old Springer Spaniel who overall is a good dog.

We have gone to training classes (upto Silver) and she is mainly a delight however.....when on a walk in the woods she will suddenly take off and no amount of whistle blowing, calling will break her from her run and then the walk turns into a 'wait for the dog'. She doens't walk on the path but is often in and out of bushes so sometimes it is hard to know when she will zoom off into the abyss.

When she comes back she runs full pelt to us and sits at our feet, tongue hangig ouot looking very pleased with her self whilst I am internally seething and handing her a treat.

I take a ball and try to keep her attention with that, have liver treats, have a long line (not as big as a shop bought one - ours is a 4m piece of pull cord) we have a whistle - so feel like I am all kitted out!

WHen she is on a pelt I can see her through the trees running like a loon so I know she can see and hear me she just chooses to ignore me.

She doesn't do this every walk and will almost have a crazy few minutes then go back to being a normal dog.

Can anyone help?!

Can't help but can sympathise as I have an 8 month old springer who does the same. I don't mind when it's during the walk - I have to walk/ constantly stop and examine puddles at toddler pace anyway, so like him to be off running about. When I do see him heading towards me I practise recall so I can reward him. However, it's infuriating at the end of a walk when he disappears into the bushes and we just have to wait till he gives up. Our regular wood walk has a lovely gorse/ rabbit warren complex right near the cars. He absolutely knows it's the end of the walk. Slightly worrying when it's getting dark! I'm going to try catching him before that point and getting his lead on sooner next time I think. Or really up the treats (raw chicken wings have been suggested), making sure he knows I've got them I suppose!

If it was at the end of the walk I would understand (sometimes it is) but today was in the middle of the walk, in the middle of the woods - I was playing ball with her too so she was occupied, or so I thought!

To add to it she ran off with the ball in her mouth and then lost it so that game was over for the rest of the walk.

Have you tried ultra exciting, only for recall, treats already? I'm going to get some chicken wings at the weekend I think. It does make me nervous as his recall WAS so reliable when he was younger.

My working cocker is the same, but with her its pheasants and I can hear her Yip Yip Yipping in all directions.....

Oh I hadn't thought about taking the cat. He'd definitely love that. Not sure I'd ever get either of them back though!

We had similar issues with 9 mo old lab x - but in his case, it was looking for squirrels in woods. Utterly deaf to recall, if a squirrel was in the offing.

We had lots of suggestions here, and some advice from a trainer to simply keep him closer to us on the next few walks - practising distraction/recall the second he got that 'I'm going to run off' look. I found if I interrupted him at that stage, it worked - a second later and I'd have lost the moment. And as he is a lab x, treats....any treats....work, well, a treat

She'll be after a smell and quartering to find it! It's what she's bred for.

A lot of what you're after is based in steadiness; teaching her to make her head rule her instincts or heart.

She obviously has the head bit sorted out OK. She knows what the recall actually is. And what she's supposed to do but she finds herself in situations where she can't make that knowledge more important than tracking whichever scent she's homed in on.

Do you have a specific recall whistle sound? And which whistle are you using?

The ideal for a working dog is that they only go for a scent/retrieve/whatever when you tell them to. Not whenever they fancy. So, you need to start teaching her steadiness. Does she walk to heel off the lead? Can you sit her up, tell her to stay and she'll listen? That's the start of it.

We had this kind of problem with one of our collies. He could hear perfectly well, but legged it at any opportunity. I had taken him to school and spoken to lots of behaviourists. The one who came to our house was useless, and his methods would have ended up in a dead dog before he had a reliable recall. I managed to find a sheepdog trainer willing to help, and since we have seen her, our out-of-control dog is like having a different dog around.
You may find a trainer who does field work or gun dog training who might help. We didn't need to resort to collars/endless treats and whole chickens to get horror dog back and it has basically been a slight shift on our part in attitude.

When horror dog was belting off, he was making all the hunting decisions. If we are in charge and we are finding the food, it is our decision where and when and how hunting should take place. Not the dog's decision!
Since there are so many different ways to establish this, it would probably be worth talking to different people and finding out who is most likely to be able to help you.

We have a lurcher who liked to bolt. The ground he can cover if/when he decided to do it was astounding - and scary!

Not sure if the same thing would work for a spaniel, as I have no experience of them myself, but for my boy it was teaching the instant downstay that cracked it for us.

If we were on the ball, we could get the command in as soon as he got that faraway look in his eye. It did mean we had to walk him without the other dogs at first, which was a bit of a pita, but, with enough work and reinforcement we were able to start walking them together again once we could get him to drop no matter what he was doing and wait for us to collect him.

He's the only dog we've ever had the problem with, as being a rescue, he hadn't learned the instant downstay from a pup like my others had. I tend to do a lot of work on it with mine when they're young because, it can save lives, it can be used in a never ending range of situations where you need instant control and in my own experience it has been more bombproof a command than the recall.

I agree with the poster who suggested grading the rewards. All of mine have A, B and C grades depending on what we are training.

Thanks for all the replies!

Daisy (you as always are a star) I have an Acme 210.5 whistle and when we play hide and seek she is like a rocket back to where we are hiding but I only get to do that when I am walking with DH or DD. I usually walk with 2yo DS so not very easy.

If I have a treat she will walk to heel off lead and she can sit and stay. When she reappeared today she came and sat next to pushchair and stayed there whilst I sorted out DS.

She has the potential I can see it but she is always on alert and even when sitting I can see her body quivering, ears up ready to run.

Silent - that's a good idea about a different approach and a great success story! There is a gun dog trainer local to us (although I can only find him so not sure if he is any good etc etc). He holds classes but money is a little tight at the moment and at £10 per class more than I can commit to.

If I run with her she won't leave my side - if I walk her on my own she is much better and some days she doesn't disappear at all!

Brilliant though, a 210.5 is the spaniels favourite whistle

Do you do a call specifically for recall - like 3 peeps? Or just a general blast? It would be good to choose a call - generally the three peeps for recall so that there's no room for messing in his head and he knows with no doubt at all what you mean.

He really does need to learn steadiness now, so that you can always overrule his seeking and quartering instincts. If you could spare 5 or 10 minutes every day to work on just the sit and wait command and walking to heel off the lead it'll be time well spent. It is also helpful to introduce a single peep command each time you ask him to sit and before too long a single peep will equal an immediate sit which with time and practice will develop into a command you can use further and further away from you. It's very useful to stop a dog in its tracks sometimes.

Once you've got walking to heel off lead and the wait licked - and it shouldn't take more than a couple of days - keep on practicing it.

While this doesn't directly teach him recall, it does do a lot of work on teaching him to listen and concentrate on what you want. And that's what he needs to learn.

Shout when you've done that and we'll move to phase 2!

My labs (aged 10, 6, 1.5 and 9 months) all walk to heel off lead to my lhs, together, and can be sent off to play by name . I am very proud!

Something that has helped with horror dog is, when he starts to bolt, is to chase him and growl furiously. He understands what his whistle means, and usually wants to be part of the team. Bolting is unacceptable, and so dangerous. Usually it stops him in his tracks and I can then call him back and praise him lavishly. The bond between us is much greater, and for a long time there was none at all. It also means that tugging on the lead is unacceptable, and there are easy ways to walk comfortably for him. Do you have an enclosed space you can work in? We used a tennis court, which is good for size, but a bit dull for smells and things to hide behind!

Great to hear that we are along the right tracks!

Yes I have 4 pips for recall - I will start to do a single pip for sit. Frustratingly I was throwing the ball and then 4pip whistle when she was heading back to me to instil it in her when she took off.

How far shall I walk with her to heel/ make her sit for? Shall I put the long line on so I can jump on it if she wanders?

You should be very proud of what you have achieved with your labs! I am but will get there eventually. Fingers crossed!

Thanks again for your help.

Silent - I don't know if the growl would work I will give it a go!

We have a 5a side football pitch that I could use to practise the heel work in.

In training class she could walk round the hall of lead passing other dogs and food on the floor without wandering - we even had to walk our dogs holding a very full cup of water pass distractions and I didn't get wet.

The more I write the more I realise I need to apply what I've learnt! but in my defence I didn't think this type of thing would help her running off.

They are buggers. But they don't mean to be! Our 1.5 yr old is our bolter and although she will always come straight back to the whistle, she takes bloody ages because she covers the ground so quickly.

Do you use a slip lead? If you do, you can start by wrapping the whole thing loosely round her neck and tucking the handle bit near the top so she feels it and thinks you have hold of it. Walk more slowly than normal and use your voice a lot. A loud, angry deep growly voice for any drifting away (pick your prefered side and make her stick to it) and a happy sing song calm voice when she's where you want her to be.

I call it square bashing. We walk in a field, I pat my thigh a couple of times while saying 'to heel' and then walk on. I holler if they wander and praise when they don't. I do it for no more than 5 minutes a day, so it's no distance. We walk to heel, and I stop, ask for a sit verbally and with a whistle exactly at the moment when the bum hits the floor when they're learning, and eventually drop the verbal. Then we move off again with a thigh pat and a 'to heel'. I also use 'close' for a turn - start by turning across the front of your dog with the command so she has no choice but work with what you're doing.

They get it so quickly. Mine have all got it in less than an hour. They're so keen to get it right, and so don't mean to do it wrong!

If a ball or treats get her to concentrate on you more, start off using it to keep her attention and reward by giving it to her at the end of the exercise. In time drop the reward and she'll be working just to please you.

You really are on the right lines - one of my trainers says always aim for 100% but accept 95. We're working with things that have a brain and years worth of carefully bred instincts of their own and they sometimes just use them. It's about getting them as good as we can. Your dog has the capability of coming in and going back to a whistle command, stopping to a single peep and looking to you for hand signals on which direction YOU want her to go. She can learn the 'over' command and will jump whatever you ask her to, wherever she is. Excepting our baby, who's still learning - I can work my girls with those commands up to a distance of about 500 metres, sometimes further.

They are so bloody clever. And so keen to please. Keep going as you are. You're doing really well!

Ooohhh. This is long. Sorry.

Your Square Bashing sounds similar to what we have been doing with horror dog. He has got the idea that it is far better to be part of the team. He makes me feel quite inadequate really, and he wants to work!

Square bashing is on the cards for tomorrow! There is a playing field near thank I can link up to a nice river walk so I will do that. It's also where I go if I think e bolting is particularly bad as its so open and not too wooded she doesn't seem to run off too much or if she does it's down a hedge line and back so she doesnt get too far into the chase of whatever she is seeing/smelling!

Never apologise for a long post!

Silent - hearing there is a light at the end of the tunnel is great!!